Drunka's 5,000th post

Yes indeed. You lucky devils have been blessed with five thousand morsels of wit and wisdom from the inimitable Luke Summerhayes. When you welcomed the naive Buskalilly with open arms and watched him blossom into the flower that is Drunkalilly, you knew every day, every post, was a gift and you gave thanks and tributes to every god you knew. The Balls Man and Jonesy "His name is not Jones" Jones gave up their five thousandth post in celebration of the man, the myth Luke Jonathan "Drunkalilly" James Summerhayes, @buskalilly, The Master Cheese, World Excite Truck Champion of the World, TWO TIME Funniest Forumite and all round swell guy.

So what do I do for my 5,000th post? I thought about getting heinously drunk and inviting you all to Ask Me Anything, or just sharing some choice real-world anecdotes about Mas and Muss. But I've proven, two years in a row now, that I am funny. I don't need to use my 5,000th post to reinforce that. Instead, my 5,000th post is going to be used for something serious. Something I care about. Something I need to get off my chest. My 5,000th post is about feminism.

Drunkalilly's Manifesto
DIGRESSION ALERT: I really wanted to make a cheap gag and call this a womanifesto.
My name is Luke Summerhayes and I am a Social Justice Warrior. Who the hell isn't? I believe in fairness, equality, liberty, justice, the pursuit of happiness and a safety net for anyone and everyone. And, damn it, I will fight for those things day and night. If that's your idea of an insult, you're either a cretin or a scumbag.

Now don't get me wrong, I've only recently started vocally calling myself a feminist. Previously, I was one of those dickheads who says things like "I'm a humanist, I believe in gender equality" and who even in early posts on this very forum made jokes about feminists being unattractive or preachy man-haters. Besides the simple fact that I grew up, there are two main reasons I've changed so drastically on this. Firstly, I've found myself in a position where most of my closest friends are female, and therefore I see firsthand a lot of the shit they have to deal with from men. And secondly, I've had to deal with men on the internet who play videogames.

A brief history of internet losers:

I've learned that these morons, like every other racist, homophobic, misogynistic piece of shit, are best not given too much thought. Old people will eventually grow old and die, and the world they feared because they couldn't understand it will march on without them. I steer clear of #GG and the ilk on twitter when I can, and if I do find myself dealing with one I just make light of them. Like the Conservative party, they're so idiotically, hilariously evil, you can't reason with them. You can just mock them and have faith that sensible adults outnumber them.

Now and again, though, I can't help but bite. Every now and then, I'm commenting on a facebook post or calling my friends to complain about the latest twitter controversy or even finding myself getting dragged into feminist debates right here on this very forum, and frankly, I've run out of patience with it. I'm going to lay down the facts here, and from now on whenever I see misuse of the word "censorship", or manbaby whining because someone can't pretend to touch up a child, or ignorant misunderstanding of gender and sexuality, I'm not arsing about. At best you'll get ignored, more likely you'll get some sarcasm.


Does it matter?
Yes.
If I need to explain male privilege and media bias to you, there's no hope, but all the little things do add up. Every time the Daily Mail runs an article that judges all the women at an event on their looks and outfits, every time a female politician is called up not for her policies but her make-up, every time a woman is ignored or assumed to not know what she's on about, every time a rapist walks free because courts are too squeamish, every time a young lady is followed by some creep she never even spoke to, every time a film features a cast of male characters and a token female piece of eye candy, every time a videogame uses women purely as a tool to sell copies to horny males, the patriarchy is reinforced. I know things have improved. I know there are other issues. I know sometimes the gender imbalance seems to be more problematic for men. None of those things are arguments against a constant effort to bridge the gender divide and fight the feminist fight.

If you're not getting it, play something like Mount Your Friends or Muscle March, or look at Doctor Manhattan's Big Blue Willy in Watchmen, or watch Magic Mike. Does it make you uncomfortable? Imagine if every single piece of media, entertainment, advertising, fashion, news and culture that surrounded you every single day was exactly like that.


Censorship
Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication or other information which may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, politically incorrect or inconvenient as determined by governments, media outlets, authorities or other groups or institutions. When the classification board refuses to let something be released, or shuts someone down, this is censorship. When online hate campaigns try to get someone to take down a piece of art, this is censorship. When the company responsible for translating and adapting a piece of art, without whom we wouldn't be getting it anyway, decide to omit some parts so as to release a product they're comfortable with, that is not censorship.

In terms of gender equality and sexuality, we are decades ahead of Japan. When a game fetishises underage girls, treats women as eye candy for men, misrepresents or insults homosexuality, it is absolutely right that western companies make an effort to bring a more culturally sensitive version of the product out over here. When a work of fiction from previous decades is remade, nobody complains that the weird racist or sexist undertones are removed.

Sometimes there are conversations we ought to have about these translations; religious, philosophical and political themes can be dumbed down. It still isn't censorship, but it is a shame. However, somehow people never make a noise about this. Just as the same people who want to keep Page 3 don't want a woman to breast feed in public, it seems not all translation issues are created equal.

Sometimes, people might make an argument that material should be viewed in its original form, with a mindfulness of the original context, to fully appreciate it and its parent culture. People read Lovecraft and Tolkien despite the racism, and appreciate renaissance romances in the context of less enlightened times. But the original Japanese games still exist; if one was really so concerned, one would learnt he language to truly appreciate the culture. Western publishers are producing products to sell in western shops to western consumers, representing their companies.


A-ha! But you like Bayonetta Kill La Kill Naked Ladies Insert Here
I like boobs as much as the next guy. I'm a pretty sexual person, all told, and there are plenty of female characters I love who are overtly sexualised, or who use their womanly charms as a weapon or a shield. The issue, again, is context. Bayonetta's whole character is about sex; she knows exactly what she's doing, she uses it as a weapon. The themes of the story are about crushing puritanical angels and liberating humanity. There is a reason for all of it.

Objectification is not inherently immoral; we've all enjoyed something titillating, from softcore fun to full-on pornography. The problem is when in an otherwise serious work, women are objectified as a matter of course. I have a great deal of respect for Hideo Kojima's Metal Gear Series, with rich stories and excellent characters. That's what makes it so grating when he introduces a nearly-naked sniper who never talks. Lol, how about that lads, perfect woman, ay? Ay?

Senran Kagura is stupid, but it is upfront about what it is: the gaming equivalent of late-night Channel 5 softcore. When a game is an interesting JRPG, your characters are all amazing, well realised, three dimensional people and then all the women strip to their bikinis and mud wrestle, out of nowhere, that's an issue. It reinforces the idea that all women are sex objects first and foremost.

Conclusion
There's room in videogames for all kinds of people, so let's not be crybabies when we don't get exactly what we want because a game publisher wants to appeal to a wider audience.


Here's to 5,000 more painfully politically correct posts!

Bravo. A great use of your 5k. Almost completely agreed.

I'm probably more anti-objectification than you are. I do have a slight problem with judging anybody by their looks instead of their personality. And Bayonetta is on the wrong side of the line for me. But that's my opinion, and I can see why you have yours.

Top post.

And I've already had its existence justified in multiple threads!

On the subject of Bayonetta, it is her personality that makes me love her. It just so happens that part of her personality is extreme confidence in her body. I'm not getting a stoner for a collection of polygons!

Good post Drunka, I agree with most of it. I wouldn't say I'm a feminist more of a humanist as I don't care what you are, were all Human.

I do hate the term SJW and how they have stuck there nose into things like DOA3X which I see in a similar way to Senran Kagura is stupid, but it is upfront about what it is: the gaming equivalent of late-night Channel 5 softcore.

And the whole thing with Alison Rapp at the moment at Nintendo which has SJW on her back along with the other lot of people moaning they can't pet Felicia in Fates, to me she shouldn't have.

Good post.

Shout out to my hair products maintaining the structural integrity of his bath room tiles. Seriously.

In response to Mas:

masofdas wrote:

Good post Drunka, I agree with most of it. I wouldn't say I'm a feminist more of a humanist as I don't care what you are, were all Human.

I found an excellent response to this the other day. It refers to #BlackLivesMatter/#AllLivesMatter, but it works just as well for feminism/"humanism".

Copied from Reddit:

Likewise, feminism isn't saying that only women should get a fair deal. It's saying that women should get a fair deal too. They don't currently.

@Muss that may be the official response from Tecmo but that's not how it all started.

The producer or maybe director of the game put on social media that the game isn't coming West due to SJW.

Which led to PlayAsia marketing the Asian Version which included quoting the post from who ever it was that worked on the game. Which led to people in the games industry along with some SJW to loose there shit about it with threats to PlayAsia etc over a video game.

I wouldn't mind if people were upset about DOA3X also were about the likes of Senran Kagura. Which seems to be one rule for one but not another and Marvelous also posted on there official socail media at the time of the DOA3X stuff with posts about you can play Volleyball in there game and it's coming to the west but no one seemed to bat a eyelid to that.

Of course the issue may have been caused due to the use of SJW and the producer or director pretty much calling them idiots. If that never happened, then this may have not been a issue.

Can only agree with this, though, like Balla, I suspect I am more anti-objectification. Stuff like Senran Kagura Burst upsets me because if the game has well-written characters (as I understand it) and excellent gameplay (no idea) there is no need to put so much emphasis on the characters' bodies. Not until we get Senman Kagura Burst, where men's clothes fall off until they're fighting in posing pouches, at least.

DOA3X is the same. Now, I do not know the ins and outs of either debate that well, but it seems to me that, again, we should at least have a Dead Or Manlive 3 Xtreme, where the volleyball players are all male and playing in tiny pants. Further, a quick search revealed this, which seems to be Play Asia stoking the fires and ires. Not good.

Also, the use of 'SJW' is depressing. "You're fighting for social justice? What a tool you are." I remember seeing a Neil Gaiman interview where he talked about the use of the phrase 'political correctness' being pejorative. Imagine, he said and I paraphrased, a world in which the phrase 'political correctness' was replaced by the phrase 'treating people fairly' (because that is what it is) every time it was used. "It's treating people fairly gone mad!"

Lastly, as I have used here and Drunka mentions, there's a simple test over whether or not you think a game/film/show/whatever is objectifying females: imagine it's men instead of women. If you wouldn't be happy with that, there is no earthly reason why you should be happy with it being done to women.

ZeroJones wrote:

Also, the use of 'SJW' is depressing. "You're fighting for social justice? What a tool you are." I remember seeing a Neil Gaiman interview where he talked about the use of the phrase 'political correctness' being pejorative. Imagine, he said and I paraphrased, a world in which the phrase 'political correctness' was replaced by the phrase 'treating people fairly' (because that is what it is) every time it was used. "It's treating people fairly gone mad!"

Completely agree with this! Why is fighting for social justice, indeed any form of justice, a bad idea? The mind boggles.

You make good points Zero and as someone who's played Senran and will again soon but not watched the anime. I can tell you that the character's aren't great and gameplay repetitive from the 3DS game but I still had fun also there is a half naked guy in it. I see q game like a movie similar to Sucker Punch or Jennifers Body, the people behind it no what there doing and you know what your doing in by watching it but that be the same if a women watches Magic Mike.

I'm down for that there should be a guy on Page 3 for instance.

On DOA3X that was the tweet I was talking about which was pretty much quoting the producer or director of the games post. Also Tecmo RT and said buy the game from PlayAsia.

Mas wrote:

The producer or maybe director of the game put on social media that the game isn't coming West due to SJW.

I'm aware of that. He also clearly wrote in such a way that made it clear his first language wasn't English, which is why I think official statements are more valuable than his exact words. That's not to say, let's dismiss what he says, but rather a caution upon drawing conclusions based on his words alone.

More importantly, it is not his decision if the game gets a release in any given region, that's up to the publisher, and nobody forced Koei Tecmo to pull it from western shelves. That's the salient point in all of this.

Masofdas wrote:

Of course the issue may have been caused due to the use of SJW and the producer or director pretty much calling them idiots. If that never happened, then this may have not been a issue.

I think you are touching upon something quite important here. There's a reason there wasn't an "SJW" shitstorm about DoA beforehand, and it's the same reason why there isn't an "SJW" shitstorm about Senran Kagura: "SJWs" aren't trying to take away video games, they just want to freely critique them.

A social media furor should probably be viewed as a symptom of someone saying something dumb on the internet. In turn, that causes the opposing view to respond, of which some of the respondents are going to say things equally stupid. That's all there was to it really, until Play Asia decided, rather appalling, to stoke the fires and suggest an "SJW" conspiracy existed. People who find DOA distasteful will nearly unanimously also find Senran Kagura distasteful.

Yes, a Koei employee made references to western views about the representation of women by the game being a factor in not sending the game over here, so what?

Perhaps western reps of Koei were embarrassed by the smutty cover with their logo proudly emblazoned upon the front of it. Perhaps they were aware that a lot of people would look at that and associate them with it, mayhaps enough people to harm their future sales of other products. Or perhaps they thought, this title doesn't sell well outside of JP anymore, let's not bother publishing it - hardcore fans will just import it anyway (let's be honest, outside of this who the hell talks about DoA these days?). When push came to shove, their facebook chap gave a response that would appease hardcore fans by "blaming SJWs". When Koei performed an opportunity cost they just didn't see the cashola in releasing it over here, probably as a result of a combination of all the aforementioned factors.

Ultimately, that market assessment is no different to my prior reference of America's 10 Most Wanted not getting a Japanese release. That game was a crass cash in attempt on the war on terror, and particularly it's representation in North America and the UK. When the publisher performed an opportunity cost with respect to an eastern release, maybe they didn't want to offend easterners or maybe they just didn't think it would sell well enough. Still, in the same way that you have argued 'It's one rule for one game, and a different rule for another game [in terms of getting a free pass from SJWs]' I could argue that those same people who are super irritated by a lack of DOA release, are hypocrites for not advocating an eastern release of a western publisher's, 'challenging,' game.


These publisher driven market assessments have been going on since the inception of videogames, and those who want any given game are free to import it, as Play Asia have made abundantly clear. This is just an example of a publisher responding to the western market with a mind towards greater profits, if they thought publishing it here would sell well and make them look good then they would absolutely do it - their shareholders would demand it - and they are still completely able to publish it over here.

Feminism has existed long before videogames, it's just a social critique. Videogames represent an increasingly important part of our culture, so it's only natural that they are going to be scrutinised through a feminist lens in the same way that, films, books, and art has beforehand. It's just that only recently videogames have become a venue for the feminist critique. Rather than being about taking things away, it pretty much just criticises art based on female objectification and asks, can we do better? I bet if you googled it, you could easily find a feminist critique of Senran Kagura just as damning as a criticism of DOA, it just doesn't have the accompanying circus.

Yeah, I may import the game now as to me I should have the freedom to buy any game if I want in the West especially seeing we've had the first two games.

You talk about official stuff , the western Tecmo twitter RT the PlayAsia tweet that they still want you to buy it and have said buy the game here.

And I still feel because of the SJW era, is because Tecmo worried about a backlash and not publishing in the West.

Did you know that Canes - an American fast food chain - doesn't exist in the UK? Are you not outraged that, as a westerner, you cannot buy their delicious cuisine? It's exclusive to Texas and Louisiana? It's ridiculous right, why isn't there even an online store for me to import it!?!?!? I mean, I actually know just how good their food tastes, I've gone 4 years without it! What a travesty.

But, don't worry, you are free to buy any game in the west, it just so happens this game is not on shelves. You sitting at a computer, and putting it in your basket, sending money to Play-Asia, is literally buying the game in the west! Although if you are going to import games not released in stores over here, why not start with something good like Captain Rainbow?


Again, if they didn't sell it because of an "SJW" backlash, then so what? It's just a publisher responding to market pressures. Moreover, the fact that a game with a "Happy Boobs Edition" made it out over here without any fuss shows that it's perfectly possible for publishers to release whatever they want.

On to more a serious matter, are you f**k the World Excite Truck Champion of the World. I 'S' Ranked that whole game in my Excite Truck prime. "To be the man, you've got to beat the man", Drunka...

I think it's a little different Muss as not everyone could of had that food or seen it where DOA3X has been advertised with trailers here and then it's been taken away.

Of course nowadays any trailer is likely up on the internet but you don't see a mainstream site like IGN for instance put a trailer up for Disaster Report.

I have had DOA3X in my basket since it was pulled from the West but wasn't sure if I could afford it, which would be the same if was coming out here. You say why not start with something good if I'm now importing, well have you played DOA3X. We don't know if it's good or bad the first on OG was great and I didn't mind the one on PSP that to me it's a series I like, long with the main series and that series (you can read my review of DOA5:LR on Gintendo) got me into Ninja Gaiden as well.

I get where Tecmo is coming from if they feel there will be backlash because of the nature of a game which is rated M for Mature in the states, may have effected future games like Nioh if they get a bad rap. But it does seem there caving under the pressure of groups like SJW.

And I reckon the people that do want to play it will just import it but should they have to, I know I'm sounding a bit like a hypocrite as I think we shouldn't have something like Fates this day in age but that's offense and is isn't part of captivating story which be the only way to argue against the content being cut.

To me DOA3X is harmless fun like the softcore Drunka said about Senarn Kagura or any sort of fan-service.

I've had my say now on DOA3X. I'm pro-equality and there should be the eye candy of Chris Hemsworth in Ghosttbusters for the ladies, the Divas title shouldn't have a silly name it should be the WOMENS's title, there should be a guy on Page 3 but I should also be able if I want be able to walk into GAME buy DOA3X, go into ASDA buy a Nuts and not have a group tell me I can't do that.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think DoA or Senran Kagura or any games of their kind are massively harmful, and I'm not against them having an official western release. If Koei want to do that, more power to them.

But acting like a publisher's decision to not officially launch a game in a given region is because, "SJWs" have poked their noses into Koei's business, and using that as a reason for subsequently importing it  is just a bit silly to me. Saying, there were trailers for an English version, adds no credence to that viewpoint. A business decided to voluntarily alter its strategy, whoop de doo.

This sort of thing happens all the time across the corporate world. It just seems like you have decided it matters this time because there are those out there who would criticise the game based on the way it portrays women, using that as a justification to import it as some sort of protest. Again, there are no official statements by Koei decreeing that the wrath of SJW's has scared them into pulling the title. Only poorly worded statements from individual Koei employees on social media. And again, recent iterations of the series sold like arse in the west, but apparently that's not a valid reason for it being retracted.

By all means do buy the game, I'm not going to deny your consumer rights, I just cannot for the life of me see your logic in this particular case. I don't get the impression it's a game you are particularly looking forward to. If it is, then that's fair enough, it makes sense to register a buy on an import site as a means to showing Koei there is a market for the game in the West. I just wouldn't conflate that thought with a social media maelstrom that was, as we've discussed, notably absent from other titles.

DOA5 has done like a 1m skus which is average for the series.

That you can't say the series doesn't sell, and that's were not getting DOA3X.

I do think SJW have poked there noises and do with thing's, where 10 years ago we didn't have these groups to post hate over the net.

It's not just SJW, I feel the same about the gamergate lot as well.

Anyway as you've seen on twitter, I've ordered the game now.

Yeah, but Doa Xtreme 2 sold like This

It's not fair to use the core DoA games as a reference point for the xtreme spin off series.

In its lifetime it hasn't even managed what Fire Emblem Fates has done in a week in the U.S. alone. I absolutely can question the sales figures of DoA Xtreme.

Xtreme 2 was reviewed badly which wouldn't of helped the game.

I'm done on the subject, I've ordered the game now from PlayAsia and that's it.

That's fair enough, I don't mean to upset you or anything I just have a different view.

I can respect you putting your money where your mouth is.

It's fine bud, it was a a few pounds to import. I hope it's as good as the original DOAX.

The Cappuccino Kid wrote:

On to more a serious matter, are you f**k the World Excite Truck Champion of the World. I 'S' Ranked that whole game in my Excite Truck prime. "To be the man, you've got to beat the man", Drunka...

I went to Midnight Resistance's thing at Rezzed last year and despite necking a bottle of wine beforehand I won their Excite Truck tournament. I've not seen any other formal ET competition, so I hold that as proof I am the undisputed champ.

I also S Ranked it, by the way. Super Monster Truck here we go!