Simply the Best

Looking at my shelf, I see wooly Yoshibo alongside the two McDonalds Yoshis. The first is a really nice little model . . . the second is the stuff of nightmares.

I think that requires a photograph Sir Lilly!

Aye! I don't remember the McDonalds toys and am far too lazy to Google them. Cheers Mr. P for getting this up and running again! I think my opinions are similar to all y'alls:

OWOWOWOW
I never got past world 2 of Yoshi's Island DS - the "collect everything and get 100%" worry came in, and with all the shitty babies, it was unbearable.

MBUNG
Yoshi's Story was cute, but I don't think I ever appreciated the mechanics of the game. It felt like a weird experiment to me.

BIBONG!
I actually really like Yoshi's Wooly World - it was a tad derivative, but the art style can't be beat. And when they released the wooly Yoshiibo... AND NOW THERE'S A POOCHY AND NOW THERE'S A POOCHY AND NOW THERE'S A POOCHY
But the bestest, as everyone who counts has said, is Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island. I'll be honest and say that, unlike Super Mario World, I can't specifically tell you about all of the levels (I may have played this a bit too late; way into the N64's lifespan) but I do know there was so much Crazy Shiz going on. The fact that all of the levels had distinctive subtitles, as they all had an original concept, makes it a win win winner.
I still think Super Mario World's better though

Admittedly, it's not as bad as I remember, but going from

pretty nice little figure:

to

single lump of plastic with wheels in oversized feet:

is a bad progression.

They're not that bad, but yes, the first one's better.

Jimbob wrote:

AND NOW THERE'S A POOCHY AND NOW THERE'S A POOCHY AND NOW THERE'S A POOCHY

Jimbob makes an excellent point.

Drunkalilly wrote:

Balladeer wrote:

I hate Yoshi’s Island DS because I shortened it to its initials and got told off for being anti-Semitic.  That is my strongest feeling about the game.

HAHAHAHA! I'd not even noticed that. As a Tottenham fan, it's a word I've come to associate with a sense of pride, despite having literally no Jewish roots at all.

How did I not know you're a fellow Yoshi's Island D?? Damn. I'm still buzzing from the win against Chelsea (my wife and all her family are Chelsea fans).

Unsure on where to place Yoshi, Cookie and Safari as I've played them all but not got much to say about them.

Joint 3rd Yoshi's New Island and Yoshi's Woolly World both seemed okay but nothing special

2nd Yoshi's Story, I always quite liked the charm of the game

1st Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island, is not only the best game with Yoshi in the title its also THE BEST 2D MARIO game.

gjones wrote:

How did I not know you're a fellow Yoshi's Island D?? Damn. I'm still buzzing from the win against Chelsea (my wife and all her family are Chelsea fans).

Born and raised. #COYS #YAFL

Yeah, I have a lot of Chelsea-supporting friends and it was very fun That said, I didn't manage to watch much of this one but I watched all of the last Chelsea game.

I'm back - back like heck.

There are lots of Yoshi games out there that I've not touched, so I have a genuine Top Five. And that Top Five kicks off with:

5) Yoshi: there are so many good puzzle games on the NES that there was no reason to spend any time on this crapfest at the time, let alone in Space Year 2017. The risk/reward mechanic is too slight to carry this over the line... or even halfway round the track. To be avoided.

4) Yoshi's Story: I strongly suspect that I haven't given this enough of a chance. The end came too soon and I didn't enjoy the lane-changing thing it had going on.

3) Yoshi's Island DS: the next game that dared to take the mantle of a Yoshi's Island, the DS game had some interesting ideas but was a pale imitation of the mighty SNES original. The change in babies kept my interest a bit but it felt broken in places.

2) Yoshi's Woolly World: the best use of amiibo on the Wii U, almost totally unchallenged. The actual game is a bit of a collectathon and doesn't really introduce anything new barring being THE CUTEST THING YOU EVER DID SEE (wait until the 3DS version demo arrives this week, though...). There are worse ways to spend your time, though.

1) Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island: the king. If there is ever a Yoshi game that betters this masterpiece, we will be lucky gamers indeed. Just enough to collect, see and do, with just the right amount of elements to keep you marvelling at each level that comes up.

Fast RMX has been receiving a lot of kind words as of late. Fair enough: it's quite good. But there's no escaping the fact that it's a tribute act to F-Zero. That's all it is. It doesn't stand alone. F-Zero is the real deal, natch.

F-Zero GP Legend struggles to leave much of an impression, to be quite honest. It’s got all-new circuits, a good variety of multiplayer options (at least for the time) and a big massive storyline, but the tournament mode is piss-easy until the very end. Conversely, the storyline missions can be brutal – like, F-Zero GX brutal. You can live with that stuff though, if you can be arsed with the memorisation that it needs. What puts this at the start of this list is that the game very badly lacks a personality of it’s own. The Mode 7 design and graphical tricks have all been seen before, the tracks use the same gimmicks as previously, and as a result it all comes across as a bit of an expansion back for Maximum Velocity.  It’s a wee bit flat, if you ask me.

Maximum Velocity was the game I bought with my GBA back in 2001, and I thought it was a load of old bollocks. Fair enough, it was a good illustration of what the GBA could do on day one (in that it was just like a mini-SNES), but I was used to F-Zero X, and this left ancient by comparison. No joke, I punted it as soon as Electronics Boutique opened the next morning. Looking back, that was a bit of a shame, as technically and mechanically it’s quite a good racer. I bought it again years later and got quite good at it, and I found it to be fairly rewarding once I was able to show off my skill. I picked it up again back when the Wii U was truly dying on it’s arse, around four days after it launched in 2012. And, again, Maximum Velocity was quite good – still as playable and quick as I remembered. I’d say give it a go.

I’m struggling to say much about F-Zero on the SNES, as Maximum Velocity and GP Legend took so much from it. It’s still a good game - ticking a lot of the boxes for what I feel gaming should be all about - but what stands out for me the most is the soundtrack. Seriously, it’s one of the best ever.

I wish I liked F-Zero GX more than I do. The visuals, the sense of speed and the insane track design absolutely make it a game to be played. But, for me, it’s just far too punishing. The difficultly curve was really severe from the start – imbalanced to begin with, before getting beyond the bounds of possibility sooner rather than later. As much as I wanted to stick with it, it wore me down eventually, and left me questioning what the point of keeping playing was. That what pisses on my chips. Everything about this is amazing, but it’s painfully unfair. I’ve tried a few times over the years, but the result is always the same: I get frustrated, and go pick up an arcade racer that’s ultimately a more enjoyable use of my time, like OutRun 2006 or Rage Racer. You can’t get good at this, surely?

F-Zero X is the best futuristic racer of all time, of course. Stick Fast RMX up your arse. Wipe your arse with Wipeout. F-Zero X is king. The handling, collision and track design is nigh on perfect, and the game runs so quickly and so smoothly. The X-Cup is brilliant, and the multiplayer even better. It's one of the best Nintendo games ever - firmly in my top five for sure.

I only have an opinion on F-Zero. It looked amazing in its day and still has bags of super retro charm to this day. And the Cappa-mentioned soundtrack is sublime - the original Mute City theme remains one of my favourite pieces of music in a game. As for the game itself, I am slightly less keen. I managed to get hold of the controls enough to beat it on the Wii U (oh precious save states, those friends of gamers like myself) but I stopped having fun a couple of cups in. It's hard, man - really demanding. I'm not really built for speed, as any MK8 section on GNamer Videos Games can tell you.

Still wouldn't mind seeing it make a return in some form.

I've not really played the sprite-based entries so I'll chime in with my thoughts on the two 3D entries.

I suspect F-Zero GX is super difficult due to SEGA releasing an arcade version around the same time. F-Zero AX is amazing and although I've only played it once (and this was over 10 years ago), I can see why they made the game so brutal. The fact that they put a career mode in to GX is a nice touch and I did enjoy my time with it (and highlighted a rich universe of wacky characters); but it wasn't the difficulty that I struggled with in GX. You see, there's this little mode called DEATH RACE in F-Zero X which is incredible and it still boggles the mind why it wasn't in GX. If it was there, GX would be my favourite F-Zero.

DEATH RACE should be its own game. There should be an F-Zero: Death Race game with season mode and online multiplayer. F-Zero X without Death Race is still a nippy racer, but the risk/reward of spinning your ship on a side-less stretch of floating tarmac is similar to the sensation of a Burnout takedown if you knew you'd have to restart the race if you mess up. It's a shame it was just a bonus mode, because that mode alone makes F-Zero X one of my favourite racers.

I haven't played all the sprite-based F-Zeros, as they really churned them out on GBA, but I'll discuss what I've dabbled in.

F-Zero
Had this on virtual console and played a fair amount when I wasn't in the mood for anything newer and more complicated. It's a nice enough little racer and I'm sure it blew minds on release but without any kind of multiplayer it felt pretty pointless to me.

F-Zero Maximum Velocity
One of the first GBA games I owned and I still have the cartridge knocking about. Going from juddery Pokémon games on my original Game Boy to this nearly made my brain melt out of my nose and although it was a bit too difficult for young Luke to handle, I have fond memories of sleepovers at Rich's house with multiple GBAs hooked up by link cables.

F-Zero X
Never owned an N64, but played loads of this on Wii VC with the lads. It's fast, it's fun, it looks . . . adequate. I like it for what it is but the N64 looks, the lack of CPU opponents in split-screen, the absence of story mode all leave it in second place to . . .

F-Zero GX
You guys are bonkers, this game is the tits. It looks sublime, it moves faster than Trump can renege on a promise and it handles perfectly with that gorgeous Gamecube controller that melds with the hand and makes man and machine one and the same. Multiplayer blasts on this when my Gamecube was new knocked everyone's socks off. I've actually got two copies here in my flat: my own, which I recently got back from a friend, and Muss', which he challenged me to beat Story mode on.

So yeah, this is a hard game. Well I'm a bald man, and I love a good challenge. Ten levels that demand perfection, that's entirely doable and I believe it has made me much better at racing games generally. The cups and that are all there as well, and while they get pretty bloody challenging at higher difficulties, they're fun enough stuff.

The Cappuccino Kid wrote:

Fast RMX has been receiving a lot of kind words as of late. Fair enough: it's quite good. But there's no escaping the fact that it's a tribute act to F-Zero. That's all it is. It doesn't stand alone. F-Zero is the real deal, natch.
Stick Fast RMX up your arse. Wipe your arse with Wipeout. F-Zero X is king.

I'd just like to point out that Fast RMX is actually really bloody good. It handles well, it moves at an incredible lick, and the visuals and lighting and stuff are all on point. We played for more than 4 hours last night and had a whale of a time, crates of fun. It just doesn't quite have the character of an F-Zero game. There's no cast of wacky drivers, no memorable tunes and locations, and the announcer isn't anywhere as charmingly over the top.

Come on Ninty, give us F-Zero NX.

Only ever played the sprite based F-Zero's & GX very briefly before I had to return it to the shop only because I was short on cash at the time, I'm going to look into buying a copy of GX soon I think.

F-Zero.  The franchise that took my limited reaction speed and rubbed my face in it.  Oh sure, I could still 'git gud' if I was willing to memorise the tracks, but I've got better things to do quite frankly.  I'm going Maximum Velocity because it had none of the accepted racers in, X because it did, and then GX because as well as being pretty it was amusingly bonkers... but at the same time, since it was as hard as a Tory Brexit, I cheated my way through the game and can't regret it for a second.

I've found the entire series more frustrating than fun to be honest, and while I'd love to see F-Zero NX, that's more because I know how much you chaps want it.  I know what I'd do - rejoice in its existence, pick it up, play it for a fortnight, and have to put it down again before I give myself an aneurysm.  But it'd be awfully pretty in the meantime.

Oh and Beast Man 4lyfe yo.

I've played F-Zero on SNES but years after release that by that time their was better games like this. I don't think I've played the one of the N64 or any of the others part from F-Zero GX which was a excellent game from SEGA and of a few reaming GameCube games I want to pick up for my collection.

Right, back on it. We had that Mario vote a few years ago, but with Odyssey coming out tomorrow and being likely to single-handedly change that list drastically, I thought we could have a quick swatch at 3D Mario games. Worst to best...



Brutal that I’m starting this list with Super Mario Sunshine. I know that’s a bit harsh, as it’s still a very solid 8/10 type of game, but you’ve got to start from somewhere. I think we'd all agree that it wasn't as polished as it should have been – Shigeru Miyamoto has since admitted that it was rushed - and that it had it's fair share of bugs and repetition. Yet it's more Mario platforming excellence, taking us to a joyfully tropical world that I'd like to revisit on Switch. I actually started playing through this again on GameCube a couple of months ago – it’s unique, and not the black sheep of the family that folk will have you believe.

Super Mario 3D World is braw, and I think I’ll place it highly on the Wii U Top Ten that I’ll send andyman soon. It’s beautiful to look at, and magical to hear. It’s a bit of an odd one though. I don’t think that the gameplay is quite as good as the audio-visual aspects of the game – compared to the five other 3D Mario games, it’s a wee bit straightforward. It’s massively fun though, and it’s the Wii U game that I’ve revisited the most since I got the Switch. Plus, it gave is Captain Toad, which was a stoater in itself.

To be honest, I was a bit underwhelmed by Super Mario 3D Land when it first game out. I was talking bollocks of course. Looking back, it was an impressive manoeuvre for Nintendo to take the approach that they did, it’s a very smart, economical game. It’s a very appealing mixture a load of gameplay elements from Super Mario Bros. 3, Super Mario 64 and Super Mario Galaxy, and it’s as playful, tight and inventive as those three are. Easily one of the best games from Nintendo’s quality 3DS output.

Super Mario Galaxy 2 is simply astonishing. Truly, it’s an absolute classic.  It got me thinking about the potential of Super Mario in the future. I don’t think that potential has been fulfilled yet to be honest. There’s been loads of really good Mario games since 2010, but this good? Naw. The reason why I think it’s ‘only’ the third-best 3D Mario games of all time is because it lacks the impact of the original, and I simply didn’t play it as much as the first one. Still, fucking quality. Go on, Nintendo, give us Super Mario Galaxy 3 after Odyssey: complete the greatest trilogy of all time!

It’s a bit sad that it wasn’t as popular as the New Super Mario Bros. games that preceded and followed it, but Super Mario Galaxy nonetheless offers a wonderfully distinct experience. It’s got this intangible magic that I can’t really describe. Playing this really emphasised to me how tragic many of the restrictions placed on the majority of the day's computer games really were – this had more ideas in it than anything else I was playing at the time. It's a playworld full of possibilities, played beautifully in every sense of that word.

Super Mario 64 is the game that got the ball rolling, as far as I'm concerned. It's the standard to which all other computer games are measured. Super Mario 64 isn’t just a technological achievement; it’s a design one too. Everything's perfect, and that it still betters every other platform game on the market speaks volumes. Can Super Mario Odyssey improve on this…?

N/A for me on Galaxies as I've not played them enough to even think about putting them in also how different do we think SM64DS is?

Without those 3 it leaves me with this:
4th Super Mario 3D Land, I prefer playing on a home console
3rd Super Mario 3D World, Which gives the nod over Land
2nd Super Mario Sunshine, I love this game like everything else on the Cube as it was my first for almost everything Nintendo
1st Super Mario 64, What Cappa said

masofdas wrote:

What Cappa said

Ugh. At least try and give us something to read.

Although to be fair that's a decent point about Super Mario 64 DS. Quick summary: it's the same basic game, but designed around hardware that's wholly unsuited to it. I feel that, in 2017, nobody needs to arse about with Super Mario 64 DS - just get the proper N64 one.

I was thinking of putting at the bottom of the pile for that very reason but then it seemed a bit odd to have SM64 last and first.

Like Cappa, the first game in my list isn't bad. However Super Mario 3D Land doesn't really feel like a 3D Mario. I expect a certain baseline playfulness that SM3DL, with its 2D-esque style and boxy levels, didn't seem to deliver. A decent game that I still feel is overrated by most.

Play SM64 if you have to. Super Mario 64 DS saw the excellence of the level design and, in trying to add to it, subtracted from it. None of the bonus stars in the 15 worlds are any good (although some of the new small levels are okay), but the main problem is the controls. Not great with the thumbshoe that we've all lost now, utter bobbins without.

Super Mario 3D World had the same fundamental problem as its predecessor: namely, I wanted more than what it was willing to deliver, in terms of freedom and imagination. However, it ratcheted up the latter substantially since SM3DL, so it rises an extra two places on my list. I still remember Hands-On Hall, the snowshoe, Hisstocrat. I don't remember any of SM3DL.

I really want to put Super Mario 64 higher than this. I have so, so much love for the game. But... it's not aged well. It's not even the ugliness, it's a camera which makes the damn game unplayable. It had so so much imagination and I love it so much, but it doesn't deserve to be higher than this. Which makes this list a pile of urine on its own...

Super Mario Sunshine comes next. It should be applauded for trying to do something new, shortly before recognising that most of the new things it tried detracted from the formula. The water-pistol, too-similar level themes, a hydrophobic Yoshi, and the repetition Cappa mentioned. Still, it remains a beautiful game, with its share of brilliant moments.

I still don't get along with Super Mario Galaxy as much as most, but it's a wonderful game for all that. However, Super Mario Galaxy 2 has always edged it for me. The superior level design outweighs the inferior power-ups, bosses, and soundtrack. Both are great, but neither's the SM64 follow-up I've wanted since I was seven.

Super Mario Odyssey's going to sit here, and I have no fear in declaring that now.

Balladeer wrote:

Super Mario 64... it's not aged well.  It's not even the ugliness, it's a camera which makes the damn game unplayable.

I'm not trying to wind you up, but maybe you're just shite at it?

What Cappa said.
(trollface.gif)

Alternatively: Yeah mas, what Cappa said.
(trollface.gif)





OK, I'll try harder.
At the bottom of the list is Super Mario Sunshine - it's still one of the best games ever, mind, with some great ideas (the weird No Fludd worldy bits were the best bit of the game, and a sort-of proto-Galaxy). However, the majority of the game spent hovering with Fludd was a bit frustrating.

Then, Super Mario 3D Land - A pretty amazing feat on the 3DS, and basically a brilliant game. A good attempt to merge 2D and 3D Marios. It just takes a while to get going, the second, more challenging "half" basically hidden away.

Then Super Mario 3D World - A better, prettier, version of the above. And the multiplayer worked, unlike the frustrating NSMB games;I remember accidentally thowing my sister's (now ex-)boyfriend's character (Luigi I'd guess) off the edge, and he laughed so much he farted. Also, I'm so pleased they kicked themed worlds into touch.

Then... I can''t decide which Galaxy goes where. They were both really clever. Galaxy 2 was a bit tidier, but the first game was of course more of a revelation. What a great way to streamline 3D Mario into a level structure, and of course the mini-gravity used in many of the levels was like nothing else. The honest truth is that I have trouble remembering all of it. I'll go back for another go at these one day.

At the top is Super Mario 64 - yes it's a bit technically wonky now, but I love it loads. It changed videogames forever, for crying out loud. I can't remove the nostalgia: The opening swirl of Lakitu. Just running around the castle outside, with no real purpose than to enjoy the birdsong. Getting to the top of Whomp's Fortress for the first time. The electric piano of Dire Dire Docks. Sliding past the penguin. The piano. Getting inside the pyramid. Changing the starting water level in Wet Dry Land. Wet Dry Land in general. Jumping in at half past and watching the Tick Tock clock platforms go wonky. Fantastic.

This space reserved for Odyssey?

Jimbob wrote:

I remember accidentally thowing my sister's (now ex-)boyfriend's character (Luigi I'd guess) off the edge, and he laughed so much he farted.

Good arrow.

The Cappuccino Kid wrote:

Balladeer wrote:

Super Mario 64... it's not aged well.  It's not even the ugliness, it's a camera which makes the damn game unplayable.

I'm not trying to wind you up, but maybe you're just shite at it?

How very dare you.  I got all 120 back in the day, don'cha know.  Then I tried to play it on Wii U and the camera was just utter bobbins.  And I know it's not just me.  There's also the distinct lack of challenge these days (the camera provides most of the difficulty), and the rather pathetic first two Bowser fights.

Read that link if you want more proof of my fondness for this game, but while I still love it more than any other game on that list, I can't call it the best any more. Which I'm sad about.