The Switch vs the 3DS

If we get a second for a shuffle of this chat, then we'll shift it to a new thread if you are all keen for that to happen. I'll hold off on throwing down my two cents until then.

Not sure if you can do it but couldn't a portion of this be merged into the General Switch chat thread?

Maybe it should have it's own thread on our thoughts of the Switch as a handheld or a 3DS replacement or whatever but U'm going to have a long post now about it.

Jas on Puyo Puyo Tetris & Bomberman R as examples both of which are retail games for about 30-40 quid, I'd have been more interested in buying these if they were eShop only titles for £20.

Why though? This seems a bit like the whole No Man's Sky thing where people were saying it's a indie it should be £20, sure the game turned out to be crap but because it was a indie doesn't mean it should be £20 and I think the same sort of goes for theses games due to the style of them.

I'm not talking just on Switch here but if it got games what seemed to be more of a traditional handheld game then why should cost less on it, that to me makes no sense why does Lady Layton, Bravely Third, Pokemon Stars, Monster Hunter XX being on 3DS or Switch make any difference to the quality of the game, it doesn't.

The game is going to be the same and you're happy to pay £40 for Monster Hunter XX on 3DS but as it's a handheld game it should be £20 on Switch as the Switch should be for home console games.

Does that mean Fire Emblem Warriors should be £20 on New 3DS as it be less of a game (I gather in terms of graphics and performance not content based on HWL) then the Switch version.

To me and this may just me it doesn't matter what the game is on it down to do I want the game and I feel it's worth that, if I felt Monster Hunter XX was worth getting and it was on either 3DS or Switch then I would.

If I feel the game is played better as a portable game then I can on the Switch, no one is forcing anyone to use the Switch as a home console and nearly the 10+ games I've dabbled with on Switch I've played on the Switch itself the only one I really haven't is Zelda.

That is the beauty of the Switch being a hybrid, I look at it as a handheld which can play Wii U like games which other do as well and why I've been playing my games on it in handheld mode and why I'll be buying Sonic Mania on it and not PS4 and why I'll be buying Dragon Quest XI on PS4 not Switch.  

You may look at it completely different as long as we get great games be it a 2D Metroid in Dread or 3D in Prime IV then does it matter that I look at as a handheld which I can plug into my TV or you look at it as taking a game like Zelda on the go as long as we are enjoying what we are playing on it and we feel we are get value for money as well I guess.

Only ones that will really be able to determine if the Switch is the 3DS replacement and the handheld going forward is Nintendo, if they keep the 3DS going well into 2018 and it gets Metroid Dread and the Switch doesn't or they even replace it with a new handheld (this to me seems silly as you're selling me on somehtign that can be taken on the go then you want me to buy something that can be taken on the go, each with their unique games) or if we see a Switch Mini or Switch sold with out a dock.

For now we don't know and let's just go play Moo Moo Meadows.

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On 3DS, did you know you can't really buy a New 3DS any more? You can buy a 2DS or New 3DS XL, I wonder if the New 3DS XL will be phased out and it be just 2DS and New 2DS XL instead going forward.

I chose Bomberman & Puyo Tetris for a reason because indie games aside those are the most handheld-like titles the Switch has so I said those games should be 20 quid NOT all handheld-like games or every 3ds series should they make the jump to Switch.

Hope that answers your question because I really don't want to be going around in circles on this one.

I hope that doesn't mean you've sworn off this topic Jas? I had some questions I wanted to ask you, only was waiting until the topic got shuffled someplace else like a good forumite. 😇

No, not entirely as I'm still interested to hear Jay's take on it.

Ouch! (runs hand under cold water)

Right, I've split from what I reckon is a decent place in that thread. I'll write up some extended thoughts on the matter tomorrow!

Right, I'll be brief.  

To briefly answer Jas' earlier response to my post: as the Switch is a hybrid, and as someone who plays it mostly as a handheld, I'm hoping, nay expecting, that it'll get both libraries.  Nintendo's home console and handheld ones.  The God Machine.  That means a 2D Zelda two years after the 3D one, bigger and better (potentially) than any before it.  And if anyone's expecting multiple 3D Zeldas in two years they're greedy whining bustards.

And to put some reasons behind my view (I've checked the thread, I haven't yet), all things being equal I'd rather have any given game on the Switch, 2D or 3D, indie or 'triple A'.  Because I can play it on the go or on the telly.  Portability or atmosphere.  And an improvement in grunt as well, natch, whatever the dev chooses to do with it.  (Granted, I've got New Toy Syndrome as well.)

The 3DS' advantages over the Switch (from a consumer perspective) are the dual screens, slightly increased whip-out-of-bag-ability, and... yes, less likelihood of being shafted on price.  But if they get the price right, I'd rather have any given game on the Switch.

Aye that's fair balla, as I said I'm not against the Switch having them I just lean towards the console side of things because that's how I like to play games.

Might be a silly question but how do you play your 3DS? As I prefer home console gaming as well, yet I'm playing my Switch like my 3DS or VITA most of the time that's sat in the same chair as I would be playing a home console game but with something on the TV in the background.

If you play most of your 3DS on the go then yeah I can see Switch being a bit of a pain as a portable but if you're playing like me at home then not sure I see the difference of the game being on 3DS or Switch.

On price Balla brings up I can see analysts being right and their is a Switch Mini or Switch sold without the £99.99 dock, when we get either of them is when I think the 3DS will be killed of due the Switch being sold as a portable.

Even now 2DS £80 and Nintendo advertising likes of New Super Mario Bros 2 along with other selects, it feels like what the PS2 was like after the PS3. Cheap system, loads of games, with the odd few big new ones still to come.

Right, here's my take.

From a games standpoint, I'm almost certain Nintendo are transitioning away from the 3DS. It's plain to see by the lack of any massive releases on the system's horizon. Fire Emblem Warriors is the only one I can really see myself, but that's coming out on Switch anyway. I'll still use my 3DS to play some of its backlog that I've missed or for weekly sessions on Monster Hunter, but I'm fairly certain I won't be buying any new releases beyond Fire Emblem Echoes. I'd be incredibly surprised if the next mainline Pokémon or Animal Crossing is heading to the 3DS.

I think the New 2DS is, as Drunka said earlier, a way to get rid of 3DS parts that are not going to ship anyway to try and recoup some costs while offering a budget console on the market. A near £300 Switch might be a bit much for the wee ones to get for their birthdays or Christmases, but Nintendo would be daft to abandon a relatively healthy console with a barely six month old Pokémon title on it. Imagine taking some of the new Nintendo gamers who are picking up a 2DS for Pokémon or Animal Crossing then converting those gamers into Switch owners when we get Pokémon Beige and Mauve on Switch? We're still early doors in the Switch's lifespan. Give it a year and I reckon we'll be hearing next to nothing about the 3DS.

I really don't see the 3DS draining resources from Nintendo's first party Switch development or what have you, and no third party developer is going to prioritise the six year old limping handheld over the shiny new home console you can take on the go. The Switch is still selling like hotcakes to older gamers who see the value in a console that outputs home console gaming on the go whilst still retaining that Nintendo seal of quality. Case in point - Mario Kart 8 Deluxe is smashing it just now, and that's a bloody port! Any new games announced for 3DS at E3 will likely have already been in development prior to the Switch taking off.

Personally, I don't do a lot of gaming out of the home anyway. When I do, it's usually on a longer trip and in that instance the Switch would do me fine as a handheld. For now, it's a home console to me. For shorter trips, I still enjoy using the 3DS as it's more compact than the Switch. That's not to say the Switch is failing in my eyes as a handheld - it's still got a sleep button for short bursts of gaming - or that it's glued to its dock or anything. The real treat is being able to take the Switch out of the dock in my bedroom and sit with in the lounge, or in bed, or even on the bog. I can't do that with the PS4.

I think for now Nintendo's not pushing the Switch's handheld capabilities as the 3DS still has legs to take it into next year. The handheld staples will likely make their way to Switch in due course, but not yet. And that's fine in my eyes! Being able to tuck into multiplayer treats I missed out on Wii U such as Splatoon 2 or Mario Kart 8 suits me fine, and the real benefit of those is playing online which scuppers the portability argument for the Switch anyway. This year's all about multiplayer for the Switch. BesidesSuper Mario Odyssey, the rest of the console's killer apps to come are big multiplayer releases. I reckon we'll hear tell of a Smash port as well, which only adds fuel to that fire.

In short - the 3DS is fine where it is for now, it's not hurting the Switch in any way and the handheld classics will make their way to Switch in a couple of years or so.

Most of my handheld gaming took place in bed. I would take my 3ds to work but could never play it since my commute involved me driving. On lunch breaks I'd either be stretching my legs, getting food, or talking to colleagues. If I had coach or train trips, things would be different, but I didn't so I barely used it to be honest. Frankly, a phone is just that much more convenient for portable gaming in short bursts anyway.

The beauty of the Switch is that I can play it in bed, so it's automatically assumed whatever place the 3ds had for me. While it's not as easy to carry around, if I'm on a long coach trip or whatever then I'd actually prefer this nice big thing to a 3ds, and since most public transport has sockets available, battery is a total non-issue. At some point it would be nice to have handheld like games on the system, but to my mind we sort of already do. Mr Shifty looks very good and is the sort of thing I'd like to play on the go. So too the Binding of Isaac and Fast RMX. Which is the whole point of a hybrid system really, the user gets to dictate when and where they play certain games.

I don't want the 3ds to die, but it's clearly on the way out and that's ok. It had a great run, still has a heck of a library there to fish through, and it'll get some support for a couple more years I'd have thought. But the Switch is new, exciting, and brings a level of quality that no portable device has done so before, so with all that in mind I just don't have much room left for the traditional handheld. That's not to say I won't be picking up Echoes at some stage, or that I'm trading the 3ds in shortly thereafter. Rather the Switch simply suits my needs far better.

Could the Switch become a new handheld if Nintendo later released a home console? I've seen that idea batted around a bit, I'd say maybe that's the plan once the Playstation 5 comes about. But that's a ways off so I don't really care to speculate. Plus, Nintendo have been doing their own thing since the Wii so I'm not sure they particularly care what the rest of the bois are up to.

I hope you're both right, not only that no big games get made for the 3DS from now on, but also that few games are made dual releases, holding them back unnecessarily on Switch. Getting rid of spare parts I don't mind at all.

Muss wrote:

Could the Switch become a new handheld if Nintendo later released a home console? I've seen that idea batted around a bit, I'd say maybe that's the plan once the Playstation 5 comes about. But that's a ways off so I don't really care to speculate. Plus, Nintendo have been doing their own thing since the Wii so I'm not sure they particularly care what the rest of the bois are up to.

That's a really interesting idea. Whilst I don't think Nintendo would go down the road of trying to match Sony and Microsoft on a power standpoint, I suppose the option is there for them to pursue that and bring out a powerful home console. The Switch would have legs as a handheld at that point, I'd bet.

Balladeer wrote:

I hope you're both right, not only that no big games get made for the 3DS from now on, but also that few games are made dual releases, holding them back unnecessarily on Switch.

Drawing a comparison to Hyrule Warriors, I think the main difference between any potential Switch and 3DS dual releases will be graphical quality, natch, and performance. I bet it'll still be the same game at heart.

I think that's the problem for me!  In order to make a good game that the 3DS can handle, there are going to have to be some sacrifices to the Switch version.  Not just graphical ones either.  I'm thinking mostly Smash Bros. U/3D, where the existence of the latter meant no Ice Climbers or transformations in the former.  You may or may not think that's a good thing, but it's definitely holding the former back gameplay-wise.  

We're talking a machine whose most impressive game is KIU, or OoT 3D, or ALBW or something, vs. a machine which has BotW as a launch title.  That's a massive disparity.

Well what if the releases such as Fire Emblem Warriors which is New 3DS "Only" and Switch, this is what HWL should have been as well a New 3DS "Only" as it is meant to be pants on 3DS.

JayMoyles wrote:

Muss wrote:

Could the Switch become a new handheld if Nintendo later released a home console? I've seen that idea batted around a bit, I'd say maybe that's the plan once the Playstation 5 comes about. But that's a ways off so I don't really care to speculate. Plus, Nintendo have been doing their own thing since the Wii so I'm not sure they particularly care what the rest of the bois are up to.

That's a really interesting idea. Whilst I don't think Nintendo would go down the road of trying to match Sony and Microsoft on a power standpoint, I suppose the option is there for them to pursue that and bring out a powerful home console. The Switch would have legs as a handheld at that point, I'd bet.

Yeah the inevitable grunt of the PS5 is never going to be Nintendo's game. Each prior Nintendo handheld has had in-gen upgrades and I think the Switch's portable nature means we'll probably see something like that one day. It'd be akin to the GBA and GBA: SP, where the latter is not necessarily more powerful, but it is just a better more porta-friendly device.

At the same time though I think Nintendo's move into mobile plus the hybrid nature of the switch might just mean that they're pretty comfortable where they're at going forward. The 3ds isn't going away any time in the immediate future though so this is all 3-5 years in the future thinking.

Your optimistic about the 3DS being around that much longer.

The 3DS will be around for another 2-3 years at least. Nintendo have the Primary School kids market to themselves and that is an age that will play games on touch screens (via iPads and parent's phones). They are too young to have their own phones (or SHOULD be) so I can see parents still buying a 3DS/2DS as it's cheaper than a tablet, although Amazon Fires are dirt cheap now. What is key to Nintendo continuing to make money from the 3DS is to keep family-friendly software coming to the system, which with Pikmin, Kirby and probably one last Pokemon game coming, they seem to be doing. They'll phase the system out when the Switch is both more affordable, and has a richer library of family games.

Still it's 6 years old already (feels it as well) with the core marketing seeming to be look at the library isn't it great, seems to be a system you want to flog as much as you can whilst you still can, and what they are saying now they said similar about the GBA.

The much more successful DS had a replacement after 7 years, did go on for 10 but Nintendo dropped their support after Pokemon Black & White 2 pretty much.

Here's my cold take.

Nintendo are doing exactly the right thing from a business perspective (Mr. Kimishima's hand, no doubt). They're dropping their unsuccessful home console and billing its hybrid console as a replacement. The 3DS - a console that has sold over 66 million units, although it is over 6 years old now - is being kept alive, just in case the Switch falters in some respect. I'm not expecting it to do that, and neither are you, but a safety first approach is best.

The most interesting month for me will be January 2018. Once the Switch has had its first Christmas, and the 3DS its seventh, we'll have a much clearer picture of what direction Nintendo are going to take with their consoles. It's worth noting that most of the remaining 3DS games that we know of are not being developed by Nintendo inhouse (Hey! Pikmin is by Arzest, Ever Oasis is by Grezzo, Devilish Concentration Training was completed in 1884, etc.), so you'd have to guess that most, if not all, internal resources are being used to develop Switch games.

My personal opinion is that this is the right thing to do. I imagine the 3DS will gradually be let go, probably at some point next year once Nintendo feel that the Switch has established a decent userbase. The 3DS has had and is having a very good run, and I reckon will continue to do so... for a little while, at least.

Both Bethesda and EA when talking about FIFA & Skyrim have talked about being on a handheld, what's the takeaway guys?

I see it as a positive as we are getting a portable FIFA that will be top notch for a handheld and other games that are great shows of the power Switch for that.

The negative is where's Anthem, on that's a home console game and won't run on that handheld Switch.

The takeaway is that different devs will see the Switch however they want, console/Handheld or both which is the beauty of the system as they don't have to be limited (apart from power, natch) to making one type of game.

Jaster has hit the ball on the head here I feel. The linguistics of big studios with regards to the switch is ultimately no different from what said studios said of either the wii or wii u. It's not as powerful as the other consoles so its library of games will differ.

How one chooses to describe the switch is irrelevant when the core message underlying the "handheld" example is an obvious jab at it's fundamental lack of processing power and inbuilt internal storage required for the typical bEthesdA game. It's the same message as my opening sentences, it's just dressed up in slightly different clothes.