Super Smash Bros. for Wii U

We don't need Smash on the DC it' got Power Stone 2.

You trying to say Powerstone is up there with smash bros?

Nope just that the DC does has it's own fighter that isn't a traditional fighter which is rather good, there isn't many that are good that aren't traditional fighters on any format.

I did enjoy Powerstone I was just wondering if I had to laugh at you or not.

There will be more characters coming. As Ike would say, "Prepare yourself!"

I figured as much - Sakurai obviously knew how popular Roy and Lucas were in Japan, and I think he also wanted to include a fighting game character in this batch of DLC (the inclusion of Tekken and Virtua Fighter costumes suggest they were considered for full characters) hence Ryu's involvement.

Excellent, The Beast: Wolf is on his way! Hope he retains his awesome down air and his forward smash.

Oh for crying out loud. Not solely directed at you, Athrun, but why do people keep asking for old characters? Lucas was my favourite character in Brawl, but I'd rather have seen him, Roy, and Mewtwo all scrapped in exchange for someone completely new.

That's the most exciting thing about the Smash series: the new character they introduce! Not the old semi-clones they unerath.

I reckon Wolf is coming though, likely around the time of StarFox Zero. I'd also wager that King K. Rool makes it too.

I'm sure he'll make it. I'd rather see Krystal myself.

I'm sure the accompanying Miiverse posts she'd get would be intelligent and family friendly.

Balladeer wrote:

Oh for crying out loud.  Not solely directed at you, Athrun, but why do people keep asking for old characters?  Lucas was my favourite character in Brawl, but I'd rather have seen him, Roy, and Mewtwo all scrapped in exchange for someone completely new.  

That's the most exciting thing about the Smash series: the new character they introduce!  Not the old semi-clones they unerath.

Because there is nothing more irritating and annoying in my opinion than a company that spends time making new characters, only to dump them every single new instalment for characters that may or may not be as fun to use (and may or may not even be all that playable).  It's a complete waste of development time for starters, and I myself absolutely despise it when good characters get the chop.  Especially when it's for the "change for changes sake".  The bulk of the work on the character has also been done, it's a simple matter of taking what was done, slightly tweaking it with any new mechanics and balance changes, and slapping on a remade skin.  

To me scrapping unique characters like Mewtwo, Wolf, and Snake is exactly the same as scrapping characters like Pikachu, Yoshi, and Mario.  I personally despise the practice when it's done in series like Smash, series that are all about adding to what has been done.  I just can't stand it when evolutionary fighters throw a bunch of good additions in the trash for no good reason.

So for me, if unique awesome members of the roster can't be in at launch because of time constraints, then getting them later on through dlc is the next best thing.


Speaking of clones, I've never really got why people call Wolf one.  His smash attacks are completely unique, his jab combo is unique, his aerials are unique, and his specials while inspired by Fox and Falco's also work so differently they're not even really the same moves outside his reflector.  He's even less of a clone than Luigi is.

He's a pseudo-Clone like Luigi. Same moveset, different applications.

I think I said semi-clone?  Same idea.

That's not actually a bad argument, Athrun (although it falls apart a bit lot when you compare Snake and Mario).  But I still raise an eyebrow at being more excited for someone who, in all probability, will barely change, than a completely new moveset.  I guess I don't practise ad infinitum with a couple of characters to be able to get all sad when they leave, but I'll maintain that, given a choice between Wolf's return and, ooh, being able to play as a Goomba, I'd be more excited for what Nintendo/Sakurai/Namco had done with the Goomba.

JayMoyles wrote:

He's a pseudo-Clone like Luigi. Same moveset, different applications.

Except out of sixteen moves he only shares four specials, one of which opporates far more akin to Mario's fireball special in its aplication than it does fox and falco's blasters which have a continuous firing capability.

Every single one of his various normal attacks is completely different to every other member of the cast, so much so I could easily do a move by move comparison if I felt like it. Unlike, say, Luigi, who still very clearly shares a lot of both his standard attacks and special with Mario. If one calls him a clone one must also therefore call characters like Link, Shulk, and Marth clones because they all happen to use swords.

To put it another way, Luigi, Ganondorf, and Falco were all clones that were then gone over and made more unique to distinguish them from their originals (well, Luigi and Falco at any rate, Ganondorf is still the laziest clone in the games outside the skin swappers like Lucina and Doctor Mario). Wolf on the other hand is a unique character that was then probably given moves to give him some common traits with the other two Star Fox characters.

There's a difference, a big one, and speaking as someone who mained both him and Fox (at the same time for a period) in Brawl I'm going to be completely blunt and say I find the idea of calling him a clone preposterous, he's just that unique. if sharing small amounts of specials is enough to be marked a clone then the list of clones is going to increase dramatically and include characters most peoples first reaction at being called such would be to laugh.



As for the goomba, I would probably be somewhat annoyed at such an inclusion myself. Not because I have anything against Goomba's, but there are just certain characters that do not possess enough abilities and skills in their arsenal to turn in to fun fighters, and Goombas unfortunately are just such a character. They'd make a really fun assist trophy though! Or maybe even an item like the chickens from Zelda!

Speaking of goombas though, there is one really fun Mario character I've always wanted to get in Smash as an actual fighter. Koopa Troopa! Unrealistic, but between all the tools of the Koopa species and its own obvious abilities I reckon it could be a seriously fun and unique addition!

Athrun888 wrote:

JayMoyles wrote:

He's a pseudo-Clone like Luigi. Same moveset, different applications.

Except out of sixteen moves he only shares four specials, one of which opporates far more akin to Mario's fireball special in its aplication than it does fox and falco's blasters which have a continuous firing capability.  

Every single one of his various normal attacks is completely different to every other member of the cast, so much so I could easily do a move by move comparison if I felt like it.  Unlike, say, Luigi, who still very clearly shares a lot of both his standard attacks and special with Mario.  If one calls him a clone one must also therefore call characters like Link, Shulk, and Marth clones because they all happen to use swords.

I think you're getting way too worked up about my post. I didn't say he was a clone - he's in that weird pseudo-clone territory as Ganon/Luigi. Luigi plays very very differently to Mario, and Ganon plays somewhat differently to Falcon, and Wolf plays differently to Fox/Falco. But he still has the same specials. I don't count his regular moveset in this because every character bar the straight clones have different regular movesets.

Besides, if he was included in Smash 4, I'm fairly sure Sakurai will further "Luigify" him like he did with Roy, who now feels refreshingly different from Marth.

JayMoyles wrote:

Athrun888 wrote:

JayMoyles wrote:

He's a pseudo-Clone like Luigi. Same moveset, different applications.

Except out of sixteen moves he only shares four specials, one of which opporates far more akin to Mario's fireball special in its aplication than it does fox and falco's blasters which have a continuous firing capability.  

Every single one of his various normal attacks is completely different to every other member of the cast, so much so I could easily do a move by move comparison if I felt like it.  Unlike, say, Luigi, who still very clearly shares a lot of both his standard attacks and special with Mario.  If one calls him a clone one must also therefore call characters like Link, Shulk, and Marth clones because they all happen to use swords.

I think you're getting way too worked up about my post. I didn't say he was a clone - he's in that weird pseudo-clone territory as Ganon/Luigi. Luigi plays very very differently to Mario, and Ganon plays somewhat differently to Falcon, and Wolf plays differently to Fox/Falco. But he still has the same specials. I don't count his regular moveset in this because every character bar the straight clones have different regular movesets.

Besides, if he was included in Smash 4, I'm fairly sure Sakurai will further "Luigify" him like he did with Roy, who now feels refreshingly different from Marth.

If I seem cranky it's because I've got a seriously annoying headache right now. Specifically the one that feels like my right eyeball is being constantly poked with sharp implements. And that's an hour after I've taken the usual pain killers.

But the "regular movesets" are the real part of a character, those regular moves being the same as other characters is a huge factor in what makes a clone a clone. Wolf isn't a character that plays differently because his moves have unique properties, he plays differently because the vast bulk of his moves are just flat out not the same.

A clone needs more than three specials being sort of similar to fall in to the clone area. They need that similarity across the entire board. Otherwise the number of clones that aren't actually clones increases, because plenty of characters share specials on a conceptual level in this game.

I'd be pleased with Wolf returning, but not at the expense of a new character. Maybe as a bonus character.

To celebrate Star Fox Zero's release you get Wolf free when buying that game. Then also have another (new to Smash) Star Fox character - Krystal or Slippy. Finally a chance to give him a kicking.

All new games should be like that.

That Mario + Luigi Paper game, get Paper Mario and Fawful for Smash
The crappy Animal Crossing Party game - Tom Nook in Smash

And so on.

Athrun, Jay said "pseudo-clone". Pseudo. Having all his specials as variants of Fox's is enough for that. Also it's ridiculous that all three Star Fox characters have basically the same Final Smash. Falco at least should get an Arwing.

I don't like DL's idea much though: I don't want to have to buy that piece of faeces to unlock Tom Nook!

Balladeer wrote:

I don't like DL's idea much though: I don't want to have to buy that piece of faeces to unlock Tom Nook!

Would be the only way that game would sell.

Or have it so you can either get the Smash character for free if you buy the game, or purchase Nook separately for a small fee in the normal way of DLC.

That's not a bad idea.

I could get behind that - it's basically what they did with Mewtwo.

Balladeer wrote:

Athrun, Jay said "pseudo-clone".  Pseudo.  Having all his specials as variants of Fox's is enough for that.  Also it's ridiculous that all three Star Fox characters have basically the same Final Smash.  Falco at least should get an Arwing.

Ah missed that, my bad.

This whole experience has been a good demonstration as to why I'll never drink. First thing that happens when my inhibition is decreased regardless of the reason is I get uber cranky and argumentative.

Dead Lemon you're a genius, heck they could even apply this strategy to the likes of Mario Kart too, would be a nice way to reward the committed gamers.

A new challenger approaches... Reveal on Monday!

Who do we think it's going to be?