The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild (Like Wario First Thing in the Morning)

Yeah Jim is, as usual, spot on: I'm not particularly bothered they didn't choose to give us a female Link, but all the excuses make me think they feel like they should have.

Yep, echoing your thoughts there gents. That Triforce reasoning is mind-boggling.

Guys, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.

Er... I'd better write something more constructive...

My really basic thoughts are "hey it's Elder Scrolls but Zelda." But in a good way. It seems to have the massive go-anywhere world that Bethesda produce. But conversely, I know it seems a bit empty from what we've seen, but I expect them to make story-based points like a Zelda game does, and not like Bethesda's games (in which the main questline can seem as arbitrary as every other conversation). Exhibit A: Talking to the old man at the start, it cuts to a short cutscene where you're directed towards a certain Temple. I trust Nintendo to eliminate some of the repetitiveness seen in other open-world games, but I'm also delighted by the exploration, and the ability to find extra stuff beyond your current main task, which at one point seemed to have been eradicated from Zeldas (see Skyward Sword). As long as loot management doesn't get out of hand (again, Elder Scrolls comparison) I'm so so so so so so up for this. So.

See, I think - I think it does matter. For sure there are other, more important battles to be fought and won in the world than this, but having the option to play as Linkle (and rescue Prince Zeldale?) would presumably be a quick cosmetic thing for the programmers and would make a number of people happy, in addition to getting some positive press for Nintendo (you may remember the controversy about Tomodachi Life)... but they haven't done it.

I'm not against having a female Link but if it was just a simple gender swap choice then that'd be really lame to me, why do that when they could go the whole hog & create a story that makes sense for her & the world as a whole. That's their mistake I think they've been looking at it from the wrong angle but at least they entertained the thought when they could have just flat up refused to do so.

Also it's not their fault that fans whip themselves into frenzy over such things.

It does (or should) matter... but not a lot. The main crime here isn't that Link is fixed as male (and why couldn't a female Link rescue Princess Zelda?), but that Aonuma came out with some really stupid reasons for it.

I'll also say that I would love a game where you play as Zelda, either a main series game or a spin-off. We know she can sword-fight, use a bow, fire wyrd majjyks, and become a ninja among other stuff. Some versions of her (Wind Waker and the DS games) have been very tomboyish, to the point where she's commanding a pirate ship. I think she'd be fun to play as.

But the game we do have isn't that story, it's another story about Link. And that's fine so long as Nintendo don't bullshit us about the reasons behind it.

The_Jaster wrote:

Beautiful Beautiful Beautiful Beautiful Beautiful

https://i.imgur.com/0C6mcQS.gifv (I couldn't get that gif to show up like the one below)

Hot damn, that looks rad af

I am so hyped for this game, can't cope with this 9 month wait

Balladeer wrote:

It does (or should) matter... but not a lot.  The main crime here isn't that Link is fixed as male (and why couldn't a female Link rescue Princess Zelda?), but that Aonuma came out with some really stupid reasons for it.

I'll also say that I would love a game where you play as Zelda, either a main series game or a spin-off.  We know she can sword-fight, use a bow, fire wyrd majjyks, and become a ninja among other stuff.  Some versions of her (Wind Waker and the DS games) have been very tomboyish, to the point where she's commanding a pirate ship.  I think she'd be fun to play as.

But the game we do have isn't that story, it's another story about Link.  And that's fine so long as Nintendo don't bullshit us about the reasons behind it.

You want this then surely? But you could actually use that story though.

On a serious note, they could have done a swap that you play as Link or Zelda and you have to go save Hyrule and the other character shows up in cutscenes etc to help and offer advice during the game, like how it looked like Zelda was with wake up Link.

OrangeRakoon wrote:

The_Jaster wrote:

Beautiful Beautiful Beautiful Beautiful Beautiful

https://i.imgur.com/0C6mcQS.gifv (I couldn't get that gif to show up like the one below)

Spoiler:

Hot damn, that looks rad af

I am so hyped for this game, can't cope with this 9 month wait

I'm so so glad that they have made the combat a lot more in depth compared to previous games & with picking up other weapons you'll be able to fight in your own way as well.

Yes the combat does look much better. It was a big thing I thought when watching the Horizon trailer: that acrobatic sort of beast/foot combat would be (or at least look) better than any Zelda game, had BotW not just moved the goalposts.

Jimbob wrote:

Guys, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.

I don't really think we, as a forum of white men, can decide whether or not this might matter to all the girls who love playing Zelda. Zelda, more than any other series, seems to have more female fans than male out there in the real world.

But again, I'm not fussed. I just think Nintendo put their foot in their mouth with their statements. (That seems like too much of the word "their" there, but they're entitled to it). I AM DONE ON THE SUBJECT. I don't want another FE:F . . .

The game looks good, doesn't it? Part of me is kind of glad there aren't any Nintendo mags, because now I'll be able to avoid any and all spoilers. The rest of me is super sad we wont have NGamer around to tease out every little detail from every screenshot and get me super, super hyped.

I do miss the fact that games magazines really helped in hyping up a game, and Internet coverage doesn't really suffice.

It really doesn't matter though.  I really don't get modern societies fascination with wanting to gender-bend long set in stone character genders "just cuz".  If one wants better representation for women that's one thing, but I can tell people right now, the protagonists gender has literally zero role in determining whether something is sexist or not.  I've seen/read/played things with male protagonists that are extremely pro-strong female representation, and I've also done the exact opposite, heck the series itself has shown examples of this (OoT Zelda, Tetra, Midna, need I go on?)

And before someone goes "oh you're just saying that because you're male so the protagonist sharing your race and gender doesn't matter to you!", my current reading habits should kind of shoot that line of thought down. I don't care about a protags gender, I'm just a wee bit tired of this exact same thing constantly rearing its ugly head every single time we near the release of a Zelda game.

As much as this will likely spawn some interesting - and hopefully level-headed - debate, I think it's best we make a new thread in regards to the big protagonist's gender chat. I'd hate to see the Zelda thread derailed, especially as we could be dissecting that big lump of gameplay we've seen.

Aonuma has said that supposedly a player could dash from the beginning of the game to the final boss and beat the game swiftly without needing to explore the world and its dungeons. If that's the case, then I wonder if they're also shaking up the structure of the game, moving it away from the usual "collect these things from the dungeon to open the final dungeon" formula... It's exciting to say the least. This really does feel like a rejuvenation of the series.

One the female character thing, that would be a interesting thread to make as this E3 has shown lot's of different races, sexes in gaming.

On the rejuvenation of the series, it's copied a lot form other game especially from Souls or MonHan and Western RPG's that there's Joke covers like this one, which I don't mind as it's basically it's now a game which you can almost do anything in and everything will be done well.


And more chat about the NX version, it will indeed look better.

Jay wrote:

Aonuma has said that supposedly a player could dash from the beginning of the game to the final boss and beat the game swiftly without needing to explore the world and its dungeons. If that's the case, then I wonder if they're also shaking up the structure of the game, moving it away from the usual "collect these things from the dungeon to open the final dungeon" formula... It's exciting to say the least. This really does feel like a rejuvenation of the series.

I honestly don't know if that's a good or bad thing, now I like how much exploration the game is giving us but I'd still like certain things to be gated so we have to overcome more than the world itself to progress.

I suspect the final boss will be locked behind serious skillful use of the combat mechanics and also prior knowledge of where it is and how to activate it. I very much doubt a player can just blunder upon it, and if they can I very much doubt they can win. I recall mention of enemies having actual HP this time? Sounds to me like the final boss, should a beginning player take it on, will be like trying to fight the final boss of Ys Felghana as a level one. Doable, in theory. Reality? Not so much.

He also might not literally mean the final boss is stood on the map, just that the player can rinse the main story in a linear fashion and ignore much of the side game.

Those are some very good points.

At the moment I don't want to think that the new Zelda might be anything other than The Best Game Ever, 10s across the board, puts any other game that has graced the face of the earth to shame.  But this idea does worry me.  I hope that (a) there's still a strong storyline to go with all the exploration, with an element of linear progression, like previous Zeldas; (b) that the main quest is still substantial; and (c) that there are still areas where items are required to progress, again, like previous Zeldas.

I love the idea of a large open world where exploration is possible, but I still want to be able to unlock parts of that world through items and story progression and the like.  Change is not inherently good, and for me the Zelda structure (unlock, explore, story, dungeons, boss, repeat) is perfect as it is.  LoZSS took "explore" out, I hope that BotW doesn't do for "unlock" instead.

The_Jaster wrote:

Or we are going to get a very nice Metroid-like connected world where progression is slightly gated to what items you have found.

Basically, I want this.

From what I read it does sound very much to Ys Felghana how Athrun compares it, that you could go to the final boss right away but you'll like get owned with out getting the Master Sword etc

So I just watched the trailer again & have we mentioned that really odd transition into the desert part?

Drunkalilly wrote:

He also might not literally mean the final boss is stood on the map, just that the player can rinse the main story in a linear fashion and ignore much of the side game.

This is what I assume will be what he meant which can be said for many open world games but only a madman would bother to do that anyway so I'm not worried about it. Truth be told I'm not worried about a single thing, it looks astonishing, the whole world is so alive and it's going to be a joy just to stumble upon new areas one after another and forgetting what you were doing beforehand. I think it could work wonders for the release of NX (it's gonna be a launch title right?) as it's had many non Nintendo gamers take notice, I've seen it first hand and hopefully if they can keep the buzz going then this will be a huge seller.

I'm willing to bet that Balla is going to end up disappointed with this game because it's too non-linear

Athrun888 wrote:

It really doesn't matter though.  I really don't get modern societies fascination with wanting to gender-bend long set in stone character genders "just cuz".  If one wants better representation for women that's one thing, but I can tell people right now, the protagonists gender has literally zero role in determining whether something is sexist or not.  I've seen/read/played things with male protagonists that are extremely pro-strong female representation, and I've also done the exact opposite, heck the series itself has shown examples of this (OoT Zelda, Tetra, Midna, need I go on?)

The reasoning is that Link is /not/ really a character - he's an avatar for the player who is meant to help immerse the player into the game. It's easier to project yourself into the game when you share characteristics with that avatar. That's why many people would like the choice.

Also lol @ Link being a "long set in stone character" when there are multiple different Links with great variation in design.

I suspect that I would not be the only person around here that would argue against your insinuation that absolutely none of the Links are actual characters despite their mute-ness.  Link being mute has ceased to exclusively be because he is an avatar in modern times and become a combination of tradition and helping players empathise with him, which is infinitely easier when a character doesn't have actual dialogue (oh how I wish Mass Effect didn't have those revolting forced quip dialogue options for their avatar).  The days of Link not being his own character died with Termina.  

And you know full well what I mean by set in stone.  It's the exact same guy getting reincarnated to meet an oncoming evil (which is usually the same evil guy also getting reincarnated).  His designs differ for a couple of reasons, the real-world reason that his gear reflects the artistic style of each game, and the in-universe reason that, like every single civilisation ever, fashions and ways of making things come and go.