MY BRAIN HAD A THINK ABOUT A GAM3

I've been seeing stone lamps just like the ones in Breath of the Wild a lot recently. I really want to light them but alas, I have no blue flame and they mostly contain timer-operated lightbulbs.

Thanks, Drunka for the new thread.

Anyway, I was thinking about the news that Bioshock Infinite has turned 5 years old this week (how is that game 5) and I gave it my GOTY 2013. If you have seen my Top 25 Games of All-Time, I've got the Bioshock Collection in that mainly due to Bioshock.

Another game from 2013 is also in my Top 25 and that's The Last of Us which if you remember back when it came out, I didn't think it was all that and I only just made my Top 10 games of 2013 looking back at an old YouTube video.

Now 5 years later The Last of Us would be in my Top 25 but Bioshock Infinite a game at the time I would have said was better than TLoU wouldn't be near my Top 25.

The only other game that comes to mind similar to this is Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater which you can find on this forum I didn't place high on a Metal Gear sort of ranking a few of us did but now I'd argue it's the best overall Metal Gear.

That my thought and question to the rest of you have views on games over time as I'm now thinking two games are better than they were but one is worse.

For both TLoU and MGS3, it is the story of both games that push them above the other games from that year and series as even after all this time I have thoughts about them and left an impression.

Well, as mentioned in other thread, Undertale has caused me to keep my hype for games tempered until a good little while has passed after finishing them. I've a tendency to overhype certain games and I need to keep that under check as my opinion on some games definitely cools with time. Although, some games are just straight up bangers and I'll sing their praises for years.

There's some games I'm actually worried to return to in case my views on them have changed after a while. Lost Odyssey comes to mind - bloody loved that when it first released, but would I still enjoy it as much going back to it now?

I've got a lot to say about Bioshock Infinite, particularly after listening to the Cane and Rinse, and seeing all the nonsense coming up about Far Cry V reviews having the audacity to review the game. I'll save it for another time, maybe when I've played it again.

As for my opinions on games, they never change because I am infallible.

Wait what about Far Cry 5, what nonsense around it and why wouldn't someone review it (reply to the audacity bit). I've seen nothing on the game but mainly as I don't care about Far Cry 5, I may have missed it.

Nothing major, just a few folk going "wah, there are publications focusing too much about the politics (or more accurately, FC5's blatant alt-right signalling without making an actual point) and not focusing enough on the "game", as if the game can be separated from its story. I haven't played FC5 so I don't know anything about it beyond the way it's advertised and the experiences of those who've put out videos or articles that I've read, but that's the gist of the contention.

For me, narrative directly impacts "gameplay". If I choose to write in detail about a game's politics or whatever, it's because that aspect of the game is having an impact on my enjoyment/interaction with the art work. I understand and accept, however, that there are other people who don't feel that way. To that end, my position is 'to each to their own'. It's just always disappointing to see people bat for the 'just talk about the game' side because for me the narrative is the game. It's just one of those annoying linguistic phrases because when someone makes the 'wah, you're not talking about the game' arguments, they're effectively telling anyone prioritising what they deem as "non-gameplay-related" that those people are inherently going about their critique incorrectly. That's an assumption based on nothing but the game person's own personal preference as to how their enjoyment is reflected through their gaming experience.

From what I've read about FC5 it's a fun shootybanger, with a massive open-world littered, rather than hand-crafted, with content. It's more Far Cry, just with this political set-up which, to be honest, if they're going to thrust upon me and not follow up on it, would result in me probably falling into the same boat as people criticising the game for not actually making a point. So if anything, those sort of critiques work for me! I'm going to cease enjoying the "gameplay" because it's going to feel vacuous. That's going to work for some people, but it would drag the game down for me. That being said, I caught Jim Sterling's impressions of the game; Jim didn't go into the politics at all - but I still found his impression enjoyable and informative.

It's like, I don't care for Digital Foundry. I don't care about what type of anti-aliasing is being used, or how many pixels are on the screen. But I'm not going to go and tell someone that they're wrong for caring about those things - not unless there's a specific context, e.g. the cost of the industry, Xbox One X or PS4 Pro support etc (but that's a whole other thing). It's just kind of a shame that, whereas book reviewers seem to be more universally respected for delving into the politics (or lack thereof) of a given text, video game reviewers are "meant to" acquiesce to the same rigid categories of "Sound", "Graphics", "Lifespan", and the almighty "Gameplay" that was a staple of 90s Magazines, from Official Playstation Magazine, to places like early 2000s Gamespot.

Ah, yes. I saw Scully getting roundly shot down for that. I mean, I generally share his base viewpoint (I play videogames for escapism and fun, not politics), but the way FC5 has been dressing itself up, you go in expecting pot-shots at the alt-right... and it sounds like it's too cowardly to make them.

Yeah, I think the whole thing got blown out of proportion a bit there because Twitter doesn't lend itself to actually having a civil chat about anything. It was a Far Cry from the worst things anyone's ever said about games

Masterful.

Balladeer wrote:

Ah, yes.  I saw Scully getting roundly shot down for that.  I mean, I generally share his base viewpoint (I play videogames for escapism and fun, not politics), but the way FC5 has been dressing itself up, you go in expecting pot-shots at the alt-right... and it sounds like it's too cowardly to make them.

But mate! He got so caught up in the Far cry chat he didn't even pay attention to my awesome gimmick Wrestlemania match of an Irn Bru on a pole match between him and Chris Schilling.

I saw the 6 or 7 long twitter post from Scully and wondered what he's on about.

Yeah Far Cry 5 was talked about on Game Scoop which included the reviewer and they touched on the politics and he didn't sort of see it, why he never touched on it in his review. I'm not planning to play the game but I do agree with you Muss games you should be viewed more than "Sound", "Graphics", "Lifespan", and "Gameplay" along with touching on various subjects like TV, Movies, Books etc sure some Balla just want fun but for me all mediums should be treated the same.


It's one of those things the IGN guy didn't see it, so never touched on it and some will and should if they feel its something important to talk about and should be allowed to do it without fear of a backlash, like I find Digital Foundry useful as a New 3DS, One X and a Pro owner (and likely be someone that picks up the sort of rumored enhanced Switch) as that's something I care about and I think I'm more likely to read a review that goes into what ever subject a game is addressing as I do care about that sort of thing.

Balladeer wrote:

but the way FC5 has been dressing itself up, you go in expecting pot-shots at the alt-right... and it sounds like it's too cowardly to make them.

Yeah, from what I've been reading about it's being played for laughs rather than being given any sort of gravitas or serious focus. There's supposedly a character in the game who screams about "Obama loving libtards" and he's a comic relief character - it's all just a joke. After seeing the religious imagery and the US setting, I was actually expecting some close looks at a very real and very relevant America, but instead we've got another typical Far Cry playground.

And it's totally fine if you enjoy the actual gameplay, but I still think journalists are absolutely in the right for calling out Ubisoft for not giving any weight to their subject matter.

The game has been in development for 3 years, do you think that may have played a part as America now under Trump is different to one 3 years ago under Obama, sure you had Obama loving libtards people 3 years ago but wouldn't be such the extreme that it is now.

Not having any experience in developing means that I could be completely wrong. However, game development isn't some linear process. They may have been working on some aspects of the game 3 years ago, but others would only have been in the past 12-24 months. Secondly, under Obama America had birthers and the further radicalisation of the Tea Party - in fact, one could argue that the likes of Sarah Palin's Vice-Presidency was specifically tailored towards making the more moderate Republican, John McCain, seem that much tougher on things like affirmative action, gun rights, free speech, etc. Even if, for some inexplicable reason, all the writing of FC5 was set in stone 3 years ago, the seeds of the radical right were there in 2008, long before Trump capitalised upon anti-establishment, anti-neo-liberal politics during his campaign, carving the Republican party into this unwieldy mishmash of conservatism, libertarianism, mixed with ethnic surveillance and economic protectionism.

"The times are a changing", and there would have been less written about FC5's politics if it came out under the Obama administration - which was admittedly a time where many progressives felt we were entering a post-racial America, or at least one where issues of identity politics were at the fore over things like workers rights. Clinton's campaign is symptomatic of that, her entire campaign can be surmised as "Trump is a shitter, look how racist/misogynist he is, also my policies are just more Obama stuff." It was a campaign that completely overlooked the economic exploitation of working classes [ie, the biggest voter base, and taken for granted Democrat voters] in urban areas, resulting in Trump being the first Republican since Reagan to claim Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. He flipped the electoral map on its head by powerfully signalling that he cared about industrial workers and their job security. Even though many were sceptical of the snake oil salesman, and many were life-long Democrats, 8 years of Obama (or more specifically, further globalisation and the continued intensification of wealth concentration amongst the elite - just look at how all the bankers got off Scott-free) was enough for those people to gamble on Trump.

People might be more "woke" now in the post-Obama era, and there was a sense of invincibility (or perhaps even entitlement) wrought by the Clinton campaign, and the Democrats are going to have to get their act together soon in order to come up with a cohesive party policy for tackling economic exploitation and ethnic/sexual discrimination; the Democrats need to win back the white working class voters. But I'm digressing, people are more aware of the radical right today because of Trump, so we'd definitely have fewer critiques of FC5's politics if it had come out 3 years ago. But even 3 years ago, the seeds of today had long been planted, they were just harder to see. But if you're a writer, if you're purposefully engaging with radical politics, or radical, stereotyped, aesthetics and you do so by taking an entirely superficial stance on the whole issue, then even 3 years ago there would have been members of the press saying they fucked it - especially if you have anything like the number of researchers they use when creating Assassin's Creed games.

Cracking post, Muss.

It's interesting you bring up Assassin's Creed because whilst Ubi's writing team have fucked it with how they've handled their source material and setting for Far Cry 5, I think they've done a lot of good with the most recent Assassin's Creed game and how they've crafted their museum mode for that one. I think taking the historical backdrop of AC and using it for educational purposes is fantastic and highlights the best of Ubisoft in the same stroke as giving people a chance to learn about Ancient Egypt.

I remember seeing that and being pretty impressed. I find the story and gameplay of Ass Creed games to be pretty tiresome, but I've always loved the job they do of creating historical settings. Being able to explore all of them would be aces!

I've got to admit I'm still half-tempted to get the educational Assassin's Creed thing, even though, whenever someone tries to talk about the overarching plot of the main series, I want to do some assassinating of my own. I think it'd be quite good if there was a market for educational games that are actually fun, like this - as opposed to the bollocks we had when we were kids.

I'd like the game to actually work

Have you tried turning it off and on again?

Did that and it was still not working, sold it on.

I remember playing Syndicate and stumbling across a small park where a few people were engaged in a game of Cricket. The batsman got bowled out and the fielders celebrated for a time, before they all just awkwardly stood around

I've only ever played Syndicate and Black Flag and found that in both, if you stare too closely, everything kind of falls apart. Not the architecture though, they always get that right. A mode dedicated to their world design sounds really interesting, I just hope they build in a few more animations if they're going to have random cricket-like interactions amongst the in-game citizenry because I'm the sort who will look, and keep looking, until the illusion is broken!

Can confirm that’s unrealistic. Common performance these days after a game of cricket is to confess to sandpapering the ball and have a cry.

Completely different topic: in the latest Meet the Admin. Team, ZeroJones suggested that we do a vote for finest 2D platformer. He was joking, of course - I think the forum would murder whoever set up another voting thread now. But it did get me thinking about my top ten 2D platformers, and I came up with this bunch:

10. Gunman Clive (1 I think, both are good though)
9. Kirby: Planet Robobot
8. Donkey Kong Country Returns (probably better than this, but I must admit I've largely forgotten it)
7. Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island
6. Super Mario World
5. Rayman Legends
4. Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze
3. Kirby's Epic Yarn
2. Henry Hatsworth and the Puzzling Adventure (I'd probably knock it down a slot if I played it afresh...)
1. Celeste

It also got me thinking about how I find the genre mediocre on the whole. Celeste has saved what is generally much of a muchness for me.

Would be curious to see the top tens of anyone keener on 2D platformers than myself... so, basically anyone.

That's an appallingly difficult list to make, but I'll have a think about my top ten. I've played literally hundreds of 2D platformers - this'll need a bit of research as well as a bit of time to think back.

You - you rascal, Balla. As Cappa rightly says, this is going to take some thoughtful, pensive thinking. In the meantime - PREPARE THE SPREADSHEET!