Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex)

This is my first time going in to bat for more 'Mons than you, Jay!  Not something I expected from Gen. 4...  

First I want to talk about some of the legendaries, as I don't think they're all 'willysaurus' levels.  Heatran has a cool typing but is bobbins in design and I'll happily cull it, and if we're getting rid of the other two then we kind of have to get rid of Giratina; but I like Cresselia the moon duck, Darkrai her counterpart who is blatantly a Digimon but is one of the better-designed Digimon, Manaphy the cute sea prince, and Shaymin the grass hedgehog with the New and Old Sonic forms.  Also, I'm going to assume that the pixies aren't counted because they're not 'saurus', let alone 'willy'.

I will happily cull the stupidly designed Magby and Magmortar, but I'm going to support electric yeti thing Electivire and plug-headed Elekid, who won me the final of Pokémon Stadium 2's Little Cup almost single-handedly.  I'll also tentatively support Tangrowth, who gives the otherwise-pointless Tangela the next stage it needs to matter.

Abstain on the fire apes.  On the one hand, I don't really want to cull any starter family without culling all of them.  On the other, they're not very interesting are they?  (Infernape is cooler-looking that the fuzzballs though - it has that whole Sun Wukong thing going on.)

I've not properly played Gen. IV, so I've no attachment to any of the 'Mon from these games. I'll be a cheerier lad come Gen. V - I've got a lot of love for those guys.

Do you now?  Well, before that, let's look back at Gen. 4's current lost souls:

LOTS OF SOULS:

Right, Gen. 5!  The generation that reinvented a whole bunch of Gen. 1 'Mon - but when we have the Gen. 1 'Mon back, do we need their Gen. 5 counterparts?  Let's find out!

• Timburr, Gurdurr, and Conkeldurr are all hideous clown-faced humanoids with pumpy muscle-veins.  They make me feel ill.
  
• Roggenrola (Christ), Boldore, and Gigalith don't have the character of the Geodude line... or any character actually.  They're rocks with faces without the faces.  Bin.
  
• Finally from me for now, Alomomola. It wouldn't have been a bad idea for a Luvdisc evolution... damn it we didn't cull Luvdisc back in Gen. 3! Can I get a retroactive cull on it? It's crap. Anyway, Alomo looked like a Luvdisc evolution that wasn't, so it stands out as pointless even before you get to its creepy hand-finds. Brr.

WHAT ABOUT YOU FELLOWS?

Not many from me - I like most of Gen V's dudes. I don't care enough about the group you mentioned to build a spirited defence, but I'll throw my executioner's hood on for these 'Mon:

Tirtouga/Carracosta - Forgettable water turtles. We've already had far superior water turtles since Gen I. Get rid of them.

Basculin - Boring fish. Get them gone.

Druddigon - Ugly dragon. Gen V's dragons kinda suck. I'd throw up Hydreigon here, but he's the least offensive of the bunch.

The goths - There's something inherently creepy about most of the humanoid 'Mon. I think these three are particularly bad for it - the gothic lolita look does not mesh well with Pokémon in my book.

I need more actual hate to destroy them Jay, apathy won't cut it!

I was originally going to defend the turtles, but... yeah they're not all that are they? Bin. Likewise the fish and the goths. I don't actually mind Druddigon though - it's got a gargoyle feel to it and I'm about that. Do I take it that you feel similarly about Axew Fraxure and Haxorus Jay? Because I'll get rid of them: 'axe + dinosaur' does not a great Pokémon make.

No, I actually quite like that family of dragons - I had a Haxorus on my team in Black. Axew is a wee cutie, too.

Agreeing will all of Balladeer's choices there. Totally unappealing, I don't imagine I'd have tried to catch them when I did my playthrough of this back in 2011.

Patrat and Watchog, as well as Purrloin and Liepard, add no value to the game. They're just filling out the Pokedex and some of the early trainer battles without being worth much else.

Blitzle and Zebstrika deservedly got pelters in NGamer Magazine. I remember that one of these was amongst the first Gen 5 Pokemon to be revealed, in Japan. NGamer printed an article trying to guess their English name, and I remember Martin Kitts taking the piss and saying 'Zzzzzorse'. That sums it up. Electric zerba - SHITE!

Sewaddle, Swadloon and Leavanny. More like Sewiddle, Bawloon and Leafanny! YAAAAAAASSSSSSSSS!!!

Basculin and the whole Vanilitte evolution line are just taking the piss. So, so uninspired.

There’s a whole load of Pokemon that appear late in these games that just didn’t appeal to me at all. Pawniard, Bisharp, Vullaby, Mandibuzz, Heatmor, Durant, Meinfoo, Meinshao and Cryogonal are the worst offenders, and should all stop breathing for a minimum of three hours.

I nearly chucked Patrat and Watchog into the bin myself - not great 'Mon, those ones.

I disagree with you on Blitzle and Zebstrika though. I used one for my playthrough of Black and they did work for me in battles and looked pretty cool in doing so. They reminded me of Ponyta/Rapidash, in a good way.

I'll also go to bad for the Vanllite line. They got a lot of flak back when this game launched and I reckon it's undeserved. They're memorable and Pokémon don't need to be animals - even Gen I had shite like Voltorb and Magnemite. I'm down with Vanillite.

I couldn't give much of a toss to type something for the rest of your nominees, though.

The Cappuccino Kid wrote:

Patrat and Watchog, as well as Purrloin and Liepard, add no value to the game. They're just filling out the Pokedex and some of the early trainer battles without being worth much else.

Patrat and Watchog were proper bobbins. Purrloin and Liepard I will reluctantly stick up for though, as I think they're the best-designed cat Pokémon out there. Yes, better than Meowth and Catface.

The Cappuccino Kid wrote:

Blitzle and Zebstrika deservedly got pelters in NGamer Magazine. I remember that one of these was amongst the first Gen 5 Pokemon to be revealed, in Japan. NGamer printed an article trying to guess their English name, and I remember Martin Kitts taking the piss and saying 'Zzzzzorse'. That sums it up. Electric zerba - SHITE!

Jay's already defended this, but yes, I actually quite liked 'em. They weren't special per se, but they were decent early-game monsters and nicely enough designed.

The Cappuccino Kid wrote:

Sewaddle, Swadloon and Leavanny. More like Sewiddle, Bawloon and Leafanny! YAAAAAAASSSSSSSSS!!!

Forgettable bugs. Bin them. No need once you bring Caterpie and the crew back.

The Cappuccino Kid wrote:

Basculin and the whole Vanilitte evolution line are just taking the piss. So, so uninspired.

Sorry Jay, I agree. There could be interesting inanimate object Pokémon, but you can't just put a face on an ice cream and call it a day, and you certainly can't just double up for the final evolution and call it a week. I don't think the Magnemite family are that great either to be honest.

The Cappuccino Kid wrote:

There’s a whole load of Pokemon that appear late in these games that just didn’t appeal to me at all. Pawniard, Bisharp, Vullaby, Mandibuzz, Heatmor, Durant, Meinfoo, Meinshao and Cryogonal are the worst offenders, and should all stop breathing for a minimum of three hours.  

Abstain on Pawniard, Bisharp, and Durant. Bin the heck out of Vullaby, Mandibuzz, and Heatmor. I actually quite like the kung fu ermine though: I think Meinshao in particular's well-designed. And weirdly I like the creepy robotic nature of Cryogonal! So it gets a pass.

Here's a couple more from me:

• Pidove Tranquill and Unfezant, rubbish expies of the Pidgeys who were only there to be 'the birds of Gen. 5' and have no purpose outside that;
  
• All of the elemental monkeys. Again, served a very Gen. 5 purpose: give the player an element to cover their weakness. Otherwise, shoddy repetitive designs.
  
• Audino. The heck is this?
  
• Tympole Palpitoad and Seismotoad, who are utterly hideous and comfortably worse than the Polis.
  
• Maractus, who joins Carnivine in the 'what is the point' column.
  
• And finally, Klink Klang and Klinklang. Just utter shite designs, and utter shite names. They don't even have faces!

I'll go to bat for the elemental monkeys - I like their designs and the purpose they served was a neat premise. They're not meant to stay on your team till the end, but I liked them whilst they were around.

Abstain on the rest, although I'll say if we're chucking Klingklang and chums onto the pile, we should probably reexamine Magnemite... consider that a soft defense of that family, I guess!

JayMoyles wrote:

I'll go to bat for the elemental monkeys - I like their designs and the purpose they served was a neat premise. They're not meant to stay on your team till the end, but I liked them whilst they were around.

I kept the grass monkey on my team until the end - he was shite! But keep them, they're a good idea.

Same doesn't go for Tympole, Palpitoad, Seismotoad though. Being a dual ground/water type, I'd hoped that it would evoke memories of the Quagsire I had in HeartGold, where it just tanned everybody's arses. Sadly, it didn't. Pretty rubbish, to be honest.

Go on then, let's boot Magnemite Magneton and Magnezone off the heap too. They only get passed over for criticism because they've got an interesting typing and they're from Gen. 1. They're rubbish. The Klinks (hailing presumably from MuSwellow Hill) are worse though, because they don't even have proper eyes to express emotion.

While that's almost a wrap (20/20 PP) on Gen. 5, I'd like to hope that there's at least one other fella out there reading this gubbins who's keen to put the boot into Gen. 5 and their bobbinsmon. Also I'm looking for more support to get rid of the Unfezant family, they're proper crap. I'll leave this for a bit before we hit Gen. 6.

The Cappuccino Kid wrote:

JayMoyles wrote:

I'll go to bat for the elemental monkeys - I like their designs and the purpose they served was a neat premise. They're not meant to stay on your team till the end, but I liked them whilst they were around.

I kept the grass monkey on my team until the end - he was shite! But keep them, they're a good idea.

Ooft, that must have been rough going. I turfed the monkey I was given a few gyms in.

Maaaaaybe not then.  If you see this and want to kick some Gen. 5 Pokémon in the baws (or the Magnemite family), there's still time!  Otherwise, here's who we've lost:

Spoiler:

That's quite a few, but I can't believe Maractus survived.  Friggin' Maractus.  Can I take Smurf's snide remark in the tagger thread as a reason to dump it?  No?

---

Generation 6.  Not many new Pokémon, since we're not addressing Megas, but are there some badduns in them?  Well, what about these:

• Buneary and Diggersby.  Buneary's pointless, Diggersby's hideous, neither would be missed.
  
• Dedenne is the latest in a long line of mediocre Pikachu-imposters.  It adds the interesting electric/fairy typing and takes away everything else.  It should be taken away too.
  
• Finally, Florges.  A hideous make-up advertisement.  Normally I wouldn't advocate getting rid of only one stage of an evolutionary line (else Chespin and Quilladin would be in for a pummelling), but Floette has a ready-made alternate form to unveil instead that's much more appealing.

Who've I left out?  There's at least one obvious one I can think of...

I have no recollection of most of these. And I played through X to completion...

I agree with Buneary and Diggersby, they don't add anything. I quite like Dedenne - it's a Pikachu clone, but it's a cute wee mouseball, so it can stay. I'll advocate for Florges too - I think that evolutionary line is one of the best in Gen VI.

Right, with the help of Serebii, let's give these ones a kicking:

Quilladin - If you won't, I will. Genuinely the worst starter evolution I've seen. Stumpy, horrid little creature.

Spirtzee/Aromatisse - Never in a million years would I have remember these guys. Were they even in the game? What are they?!

Swirlix/Slurpuff - Something about these two creep me out. They want to be eaten and I don't like that.

Binacle/Barbaracle - Nightmare fuel. Forgettable nightmare fuel at that, too.

Quilladin is utterly utterly terrible... but I don't think it can be struck down without taking at the very least the rest of that evolutionary chain and probably the other two starters with it, unfortunately, which is a shame because I'd like to see it burn.

I like the way that the two fairy lines represent taste and smell, and I like that Aromatisse is a perfume owl thing... but Slurpuff really weirds me out.  Defend the owls, burn the bears.  Barbaracle is a hideous travesty and deserves everything it gets.

Funnily enough, Jay still hasn't touched on the one I thought people ragging on Gen. 6 would be all over!

I quite like that one in question, but I'll wait and see if anybody else sticks the boot in.

I'm going to give this a Thundershock to the face because I want to conclude it before Pokémon SS are imminent. I'm also going to reduce the threshold so that each monster only needs one vote, and a one-vote majority, to burn. A 2-1 score would result in a culling! Let's have some hate about Gen. 6 gents, please?

Incidentally yer man Scullion has his own ideas. We only agree with five of his 19 thus far (don't be fooled by the article title). That could rise to six very soon...

I second binning off Binacle/Barbaracle for the same reason, just hideous stuff of nightmares. Malamar for the same reason needs to go, the bird tentacle thing it's got going on isn't for me. Finally I'd like to get rid of  Skrelp/Dragalge for (at the risk of sounding incredibly Tory) being the Pokémon equivalent of drug upped beggar which I don't think is particularly good inspiration.

Good lad Smurf! Bin the Binacle. I will defend Malamar: I must admit I have a weird fondness for it and its thoroughly bizarre evolution method; plus it looks like a vampire-squid hybrid which is pretty cool. You're darn right about Skrelp though, I've never been terribly fond of its design and I think Kingdra's a better seahorse-to-dragon progression. Get rid.

Okay, I'll say it: Klefki. I don't know anyone who actually likes it. I think there are some good inanimate object Pokémon out there, but I really don't think this is one of them. They've not even tried to make the keys part of the body or anything. Rubbish.

I thought it might be Klefki but I've nothing against it personally but I won't stand in your way if you want to cast it in to the fire.

Well currently, unless Jay saves the keys, they're going down the hole - only that one vote required!  Let's look at the few dead from that round:

Spoiler:

Not actually that many!  Come to think of it the general design quality in Gen. 6 was higher than I remembered - I think my memories were just tainted by Quilladin.

---

Finally, Generation 7.  Alola.  My favourite since 3.  I might actually struggle to find ones to bin here:

• My first choice is easy at least: Bruxish.  Hideous thing, absolutely horrendous.
  
• Turtonator is an ugly bastard too.  At least its counterpart Drampa looks like Falcor from the never-ending story.  This is horrible, like Druddigon but without the redeeming gargoyle features.
  
• Finally, Meltan and Melmetal are some of the worst-designed legendaries outside Gen. 4.  Away with the both of them, nondescript shimmering globs.
  

I'm struggling on this generation and could really use some help!  One last time?

I absolutely adore so many from this generation but there's some standout ones I'd gladly bin, mainly the Ultra Beasts.

Celesteela, Blacephalon and Stakataka are all utterly dreadful designs and don't deserve to be referred to as Pokémon. Not gonna argue with any of your suggestions Balla, especially Bruxish, +1 vote to remove that.

I never actually ended up finishing Sun, so I'm looking at some of these 'Mon for literally the first time and as such I don't feel best placed to nominate any of them here! Apologies!

Argh, really?  What kept you?  I'm a big fan of S&M. Any you'd get rid of purely based on design?

Treesmurf wrote:

Celesteela, Blacephalon and Stakataka are all utterly dreadful designs and don't deserve to be referred to as Pokémon. Not gonna argue with any of your suggestions Balla, especially Bruxish, +1 vote to remove that.

Ah yes, the Ultra Beasts.  They do feel different from most normal Pokémon, but I don't think that's a bad thing.  They're meant to be weird alien lifeforms, and I'd say most of them manage that.  I'm going to defend Celesteela, a big ol' princess space rocket with some really interesting origins; and Blacephalon, who is creepy and weird but in a good way.  Stakataka is bobbins and has a bobbins name, bin it.

I guess I'd better go through my remaining choices:

• Pikipek Trumbeak and Toucannon spend two stages being dull birds and a third stage making the toucan, an interesting bird, dull by making it normal/flying and also grumpy.  Nope.
  
• I think that Fomantis and Lurantis are pretty dull, and the one thing they bring to the table, their signature move Solar Blade (physical Solarbeam), pretty bad.  Given that we binned Leavanny they should go too.
  
• Finally, the Jangmo-o Hakamo-o Kommo-o line are arguably the worst pseudo-legendaries.  Jangmo-o is uninteresting, Kommo-o is overdesigned, and Hakamo-o has standard teenage stage issues.

Agree, Smurf?  Anybody else (Cappa)?  Last chance...