Last Retro Game You Finished And Your Thoughts

Dropping the one hit kill challenge levels was the best example of that I think!

Terrible Ideas In Gaming No. 47: the one-hit kill challenge. Even Mario's not immune to that: I never did get the last star in SMG2. Gitting gud wasn't worth the frustration.

I've enjoyed 1HK challenges in the past, usually in games with a good dodge mechanic. A Platinum game or that.

I think they can work, but there are two key pieces of design they should adhere to - they should be very short, and they should be near-instant to restart.

You're celebrating Celeste again, aren't you? Grin

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From the ill-fated ideas category, I finished Super Monkey Ball Jr. It’s a Game Boy Advance port of the first Super Monkey Ball on GameCube. Before they basically became a Sonic/FootMan/Total War factory, SEGA put their most celebrated console games onto handhelds all the time. Indeed, you can find 32-bit ports/reworkings of many of their games from the ‘80s, ‘90s and early 2000s right throughout the GBA’s library. Some work well - for example, ChuChu Rocket!, Virtua Tennis and Columns are all good efforts. Yet it’s when SEGA ambitiously transplanted the more technically-demanding likes of Space Channel 5 and SEGA Rally Championship that they began to struggle. Two games in particular just went too far beyond what the GBA was capable of. Crazy Taxi: Catch A Ride was one (I’ll review that soon) and Super Money Ball Jr. was the other.

It would have undoubtedly been an impressive technological achievement back in 2002, and it can be given credit for being a very faithful and comprehensive port. Super Monkey Ball Jr. keeps most of the GameCube games’ levels, modes, party games and audio – and if you’re familiar with that original game, you’ll know that all those aspects of it are simply fantastic. Well done for cramming all of that into a GBA cartridge. Yet Jr. is dog rough to play nowadays. There was a total mismatch between what the developers wanted to achieve and what the hardware could actually do. For all intents and purposes, what you have here is Super Monkey Ball, but controlled with a D-Pad, presented with a strange mix of polygons and pixels and while chopping along at 60 frames per day. Try to imagine how much fun you wouldn’t have with that.

I actually knew a guy who didn’t have a GameCube but instead had a GBA, and this was the only Monkey Ball game he could own. I think he quite liked it. Stupid prick. 4/10.

But it's a whizzy 3D game! How did they think that was going to work? It doesn't look too bad in video, but I wouldn't want to try and keep up with it!

Despite complaining about my backlog, I finished
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The Amstrad CPC version that is - the SNES one I've already defeated.
1992 was a weird time; games were being released on the latest 16 bit consoles of the 90s, and the clunky 48/64K computers that came out 9 years before. And so, at the same time as I saw the Addams Family on my aunt's SNES (the copy I would eventually end up with) I also read a review of the game in Amstrad Action. Also common for that time: the games aren't quite the same - both involve rescuing your family from different corners of the Addams mansion, but unlike the not-exactly linear platform adventure on the SNES, this was more of a Metroidvania, with coloured keys and doors. However, towards the end of the lifecycle of the hardware, the UK computer developers had started to learn from their Japanese console counterparts in how to make a game actually fun to play, unlike the unfair and borderline-unplayable stuff we had to put up with. So, this was actually quite good to play! Yes I spammed save states, but I rarely finished the SNES version without using the secret door of lives. I'd perhaps question the "survive for 60 seconds in this room" bit once you find a family member - if you fail, they "reject your rescue" and you start again.

It's probably not as good as Mario Sunshine, which I whined about elsewhere, but compared with what would be expected, it was pretty good. Er... 4/6.

Mate, I was that prick a lot of the time. The Gamecube was plugged into the main TV and I was usually only allowed an hour a day, so the GBA was my main machine.

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I think of myself as a fan of the Super Nintendo. I’ve played many of the games that people might call the ‘required experiences’, such as Super Metroid, The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past and Donkey Kong Country 2. I’ve finished even more of them ‘required experiences’ too, like Super Mario World, Super Mario Kart and Kirby Fun Pak. As far as Super Nintendo goes, I feel like I know my stuff.

I’ve seen Chrono Trigger be widely-regarded as the highest water mark for the SNES, and I’ve often seen it included in the conversation for being the best game ever. But Chrono Trigger was a lesson that I’d never taken in my own video game history. Up until this point, I hadn't played it. I’d just regarded it as yet another JRPG that I didn’t have the time, energy or the enthusiasm for. However, a combination of knowing its reputation, being curious and open-minded, having lots of lockdown time on my hands and just being in the mood for something totally different from my norm prompted me to give Chrono Trigger a go.

I’d paid so little attention to Chrono Trigger over these last twenty-odd years, not really knowing anything about it beyond its archetypal JRPG staples. Travelling across maps? Chatting to villagers in towns? Battling through dungeons? Yeah. No. To be honest, that sounds keech. But I was completely ignorant to everything else that Chrono Trigger does, and to what it’s all about, and to what it tries to be. Ultimately though, I was completely ignorant to how Chrono Trigger is one of the most unforgettable, magical and essential games ever.

Time travel plays a massive role in Chrono Trigger, engaging you in a sprawling journey across seven time periods spanning tens of millions of years. Your actions shape past, present and future events, and the decisions you make alter the course of your history. Making good choices or bad, you unravel a simple-yet-effectual story about an evil force and world destruction. How Chrono Trigger’s story is told is what makes it: fitting very comfortably into a classic narrative arc, it’s told with a lot of heart, humour, drama and surprises. I’m not ruining this for you or telling you which ending I got – just know that it’s expert storytelling.

With dull characters and rubbish world design, this storytelling would mean nothing. Happily, the characters are equally as engaging as the story they’re told in, and the different eras make for some really captivating chapters of your tale. It’s quite odd to me that locations as plain-sounding as a palace, a hunting ground or an abandoned sewer can capture my imagination as much as they did in Chrono Trigger, but I guess that’s the game’s magic and the cleverness of their designs. I think that so much of it is brought to life by the hugely personable characters that eventually join Chrono in your party. Though undoubtedly helped by the script writing and their interplay, they’ve each got this intangible charisma that I’ve not come across in too many other games at all.

Perhaps the visuals lack that amazingness that they probably possessed back in 1995, but so much of it’s artwork is gorgeous for the time. Nowadays, it’s hard not to respect what the game’s developers accomplished on that knackered old SNES hardware. It’s all-time classic soundtrack is ageless though. For years, I’d thought that 16-bit OSTs couldn’t get any better than F-Zero or Sonic 3 & Knuckles, but maybe I’m wrong. There’s an astounding variety of musical styles being played here, creating melancholy, suspense, tension and joy when the situation calls for it. The atmosphere set by Chrono Trigger’s music helps create literally dozens of moments that feel incredibly special.

As I’d said, I went into Chrono Trigger with an open mind. Yet you might already know me: I’ve got little patience for games that don’t get to the point, and for games that are artificially long for ‘value’. So for me it was an almighty relief to find out in the early-going that Chrono Trigger has a very sensible battle system. There’s no random encounters or plodding turn-based, hanging-about tactics here – you fight all your enemies in your environment and on your terms, and you attack as soon as your meter is quickly charged up again. The reward comes from when you wait for one or two of your other party members to charge their attack too, allowing you to combine to unleash some very powerful and creative ‘Techs’ that bring elements such as Lightening, Ice and Healing into play. I knew immediately that I liked this a lot, and as I got further into the game it became even more satisfying to learn new attacks and defeat the tougher enemies. With a steady difficulty curve and a practical playtime of around 25 hours (with optional sidequests), Chrono Trigger was an absolute pleasure from start to finish.

Chrono Trigger is truly immense. No JRPG I’ve ever played before comes close, and no JRPG I’ll ever play again will even approach it’s majesty either. 9/10.

The Cappuccino Kid wrote:: I actually knew a guy who didn’t have a GameCube but instead had a GBA, and this was the only Monkey Ball game he could own. I think he quite liked it. Stupid prick. 4/10.

Sounds like Super Wonky Ball. Those GBA SEGA "ports" were a curious bunch alright.

I'm glad you enjoyed Chrono Trigger, and actually saw it through. I played about 10 hours of it on the DS, and the same 10 hours of it on the Wii through the Virtual Console. It's sooooo good, particularly the music. I always viewed it as the Streets of Rage 2 of RPGs, because while it's the music that people remember and continue to enjoy, there's genuinely a cracking game propping that up. I really should revisit it - wandering the wasteland was emotional and I think few games have captured the feel of adventure like this game does.

It's not often that I have anything to contribute in the retro section, but great to see you've enjoyed Chrono Trigger. It's a game that took me a few attempts to get into back on the DS but I remember just firing it up one time and getting totally absorbed by it. Phenomenal story and a game that still stands up today.

Wow never expected to see Cappa play a JRPG especially one as well regarded as Chrono Trigger and like it.

Its a game I'm still yet to play and is another one I will say why isn't it available on modern systems part from PC on STEAM.

Will Final Fantasy VI be next up, Cappa?

I'm really glad that I stuck with it too, though to be honest even in my first half hour I knew that I was going to see it through. It became something I really looked forward to playing at night though, and as sad as it sounds my nights are now a little emptier without it. In a way, I was quite disappointed to finish it.

I don't think Final Fantasy VI will be next. I saw a SNESDrunk video and he said that it lasts around 40 hours - that's just too long for me. Chrono Trigger has definitely made me interested in those other SNES-era JRPGs though. I'm open to suggestions and recommendations with that.

Only other one that comes to mind is Secret of Mana.

(scrumples up 'List of Genres GNamer Forumites Dislike', throws in bin)

Serious kudos for going in there open-minded and having a great time Cappa!

My memories of CT are a bit duff, and I'm not quite sure why. I think a big part of it might have been taking part in all the optional side-quests that don't really advance the plot so much. In particular, the new side-quests in the DS version I remember as being appalling. Think of all the things you might dislike about a JRPG side-quest: going back and forth umpteen times, talking to drop-dead-dull characters, treacly pace. This had them all.

As a result I think that coloured my view of the adventure. I didn't like the aesthetics or soundtrack much though, and found the combat merely okay: heck, apart from Frog I don't remember the characters either. I vaguely remember the overall plot being belting and that's it. Long story short I won't be recommending Cappa any JRPGs, SNES-era or otherwise!

Perhaps I'm only remembering the important ones, but Chrono Trigger is literally the definition of a game with meaningful sidequests... The timeline entirely changes depending on the side quests you do...

Andyman is right, those sidequests were crucial to the plot. I'm genuinely wondering if it's Chrono Trigger you're remembering, Balladeer.

Balladeer wrote:: I didn't like the aesthetics or soundtrack much though

That's close to Mas' BotW opinion...

And I like those two things

gjones wrote:

Balladeer wrote:: I didn't like the aesthetics or soundtrack much though

That's close to Mas' BotW opinion...

I know that any criticism of Chrono Trigger is treated with some suspicion, but come on!

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That's hardly going in the Louvre! I don't remember it being any better in motion either; and it's not like I cherry-picked a particularly rough example, it's the first gameplay hit among the images on DuckDuckGo. I suspect that where we differ here is these are the graphics of your childhood, whereas they're before my time; so a lot of SNES visuals look quite old and bad to me, their palettes overly cluttered compared to the clean spritework of a lot of NES games. (Whereas Cappa just plays so many retro games I presume he doesn't see that any more.)

As for the music, all I can really say is that I don't remember it much. Corridors of Zeal and Robo's Theme are the only ones I know, and that's because they pop up on YouTube all the time (and in the case of the latter that's only because memes). It could be great, but I suspect if it was I'd remember it better.

Crumpy Andy wrote:: Perhaps I'm only remembering the important ones, but Chrono Trigger is literally the definition of a game with meaningful sidequests... The timeline entirely changes depending on the side quests you do...

The Cappuccino Kid wrote:: Andyman is right, those sidequests were crucial to the plot. I'm genuinely wondering if it's Chrono Trigger you're remembering, Balladeer.

I couldn't recall if all the mid-game ones were plot-relevant, but the postgame DS-only one that has you talking to the lizard people until you keel over and die definitely wasn't.

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If you’ve not made your mind up about it already, you’d maybe want to give closer thought to picking up a Game & Watch: Super Mario Bros soon. Their production is finishing at the end of this month, and after that they’re sure to become a bit of a collector’s item. True, there’ll be millions of these knocking about for years to come, but you’re not likely to get one for any cheaper than the £29.99 that these have been discounted for throughout the last week.

I’d umm’ed and ahh’ed about getting one of these for months, but it was ultimately the £20 price drop that persuaded me to splash the cash. What my money got me was a very slick, comfortable and portable bit of kit. With it’s beautifully crisp 2.4-inch LCD colour screen, a loud mono speaker and it’s tight, responsive buttons, this is a really nice thing to hold and to use.

I don’t think anybody had any doubts that this would be a high-quality product. Yet it’s absolutely true that it’s biggest drawback is the one that you’re already thinking of. Namely, with just three playable games and an interactive clock, this Game & Watch has precious few features for the discerning GNamer forumite. Everything’s emulated well and is fun to play about with, and the Easter Eggs add a bit of longevity. However, it still all seems a bit tight-arsed. I agree with the general consensus that more should have been included with this. Surely the actual Super Mario Bros. Game & Watch game could have been bundled with this, and maybe stuff like Super Luigi Bros. from NES Remix 2 as well?

Overall, I think the Game & Watch Super Mario Bros. is a nice little trinket, but pure luxury too. I get that nobody’s buying it because they’re bursting to have a 1,384th way of playing the first Mario on the NES - they’re buying it because it’s a nice and cool little thing to have. But even at £30, I think this is a bit rich. 6/10.

That's about what I expected to hear, to be honest.

For me, I polished off two more Mario games yesterday.

First was New Super Mario Brothers.

I remember playing this to absolute death back in the day. With both this and Super Mario 64DS, I 100%ed every save file. I played the minigames a bunch too.
Running through it again this time, it's solid but essentially unremarkable in every single way. The level designs are fun and well made but rarely innovative. Mario controls really well but the power ups are unimaginative. It looks colourful but would probably be better with nice 2d visuals instead of this very corporate, birthday card standardised Mario that NSMB ushered in. Still, a middling Mario is better than like 90% of games.
7/10

Then I did the final boss of Super Mario Galaxy.
Still an absolutely impeccable game. Mario feels utterly amazing in the hands, the mad levels and their physics are just joyous and the music and visuals hold up really well. For a long time this was my favourite game of all time, and on the right day it could still top the list. Easier than I remembered, but I've only done the minimum number of stars so far.
69/10

That sounds about right for NSMB. I remember everybody raving over it at the time and it just feeling like the gaming equivalent of a big old shrug.

Well put with New Super Mario Bros. there. Couldn't have put it better myself, although I'd maybe say I enjoy it a little more than you. At the time though, it was really good to have that type of Super Mario game back. It's a shame they dragged the arse out it well before Super Mario Maker though.

What sets NSMB apart from the 2D Marios that came before it isn't the level design or mechanical innovation, but 4 player co-op.

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