6th Generation Consoles Dreamcast, GameCube, PlayStation 2, Xbox

masofdas wrote:

Buskalilly wrote:

In fairness, I think even ardent Xbox-lovers kind of ignore the OG and start their love from the 360.

Personally OG Xbox miles in front of the other Xboxes because of the exclusives, where sure 360 had new IPs such as Gears but certainly felt like it had less.

Considering the 360 was around for 8 years and the OG Xbox less than 4 (in Europe at least), you're probably right. Also, I completely forgot it had Half-Life 2 and Silent Hill 2 which are considered all-timers.

Quite a few PC games ended up on Xbox (like Thief, that Deus Ex sequel, Doom 3, Operation Flashpoint) but they were all a bit shooty shooty for me. I remember Full Spectrum Warrior being a big deal but never played it. There was a lot of cold, military-like games that I can see even gamers that actually played them having little nostalgia for, as they date quicker than your Billy Hatchers. Nobody is pining for Unreal Tournament 2004 or Richard Burns Rally. Or MotoGP, which was one of the showcase titles in its early days.

Yeah the Cube holders up better, and is my favourite system for a reason, just certain areas OG Xbox shines and why don't think it's as one-sided of a choice.

I will point the 6th gen is my favourite gen of systems, as I could afford have them all and as been saying all actually offered something different even if on paper didn't.

The Xboxes always been shooty shooty from a outside perspective and take 360 its Halo, Gears etc with the other things on being Crackdown compare that to KOTOR, it's no contest.

gjones wrote:

I took a (stupidly long) look at the top-rated PS2 games over at Gintendo to see which ones actually require a PS2. Enjoy!

This bit is funny:

Quote :

For some reason, the PS2 saw a revised version of the N64/PlayStation/Dreamcast platformer Rayman 2. Acclaimed at the time, is this really what you’re craving a PS2 for?

Because that's exactly what I bought a new PS2 a couple of months ago to play

This maybe could have been a Gintendo post or maybe even my blog but not done much with either for a while and this is in relation to the 6th gen systems.


A good question might be why get a OG Xbox, I don't mean now in 2021 but when it was first released as if you're like me when I think Microsoft I don't think hardware I think software and MS were the new boys on the block with by then established PlayStation brand from Sony and ever present Nintendo.

Who was missing? SEGA (Well you could say Atari, SNK, Panasonic etc as well). They might have had a 6th gen console and the first out of the gate, but we all know what happened with the Dreamcast. I was kinda late getting my Dreamcast, as the PS2 was out, and I was saving for one of those, however I played a Dreamcast in a local game shop, and I was blown away by Sonic Adventure.

Now at the time I would have had a PS1, that graphical leap was there for me to see. Later that day or week, I decided I wanted a Dreamcast, not knowing it was on its last legs as this was 2000/01 the internet wasn't really a thing. I found one in the local freeads/admart which I believe was £100 (leaving me money left for PS2 fund or buy more DC games) with four games Sonic, Chu Chu, Jet Set and Soulcalibur.

The Dreamcast became my main console of choice from there on, till it wasn't any more, and I did get that PS2 Christmas 2001 which was grand at the time, especially the DVD player. Something was missing, though, and then saw in gaming magazines the upcoming systems from Nintendo and Microsoft.

I was weary of getting an Xbox because I didn't have much knowledge of MS in the gaming space, but I did with the enemy (By now Sony sort become the enemy for disgruntled Dreamcast fans) Nintendo as I had played the SNES and owned a N64 along with Gameboys that out of these systems coming in 2002, I bought a GameCube at launch, the GameCube would go on to become my favourite system and my gateway into Nintendo as I played Ocarina of Time for the first time on it and was blown away that went back and bought a NES, SNES, N64, Virtual Boy to play the classics along why on this forum.

Would have been a happy lad with my Dreamcast still on the shelf with the odd new game still, PS2 with its huge library PS1 BC and DVD player, GameCube with all these new Nintendo experiences.

As time went on and the Xbox having being out since March, we started getting reviews for the games in magazines and the library growing etc. Then we got one come into the shop, which we had at the time (Why my PS2 collection was so big and how I managed to get a NES, SNES, N64 etc) and I took it home with me and played this game called Halo Combat Evolved and I can tell ya the Combat was Evolved, played Dead or Alive 3 which I knew of the series from Dead or Alive 2 on Dreamcast and I thought this looked stunning on (the graphics weren't bad either) on Xbox and the other game was Oddworld: Munch's Oddysee which was fine.

I couldn't afford to keep the Xbox, so it went back out in the shop but thought hey I liked Halo and DOA3 let's have a look at the rest of the library which I saw Jet Set Radio Future, Project Gotham Racing the sequel in all but name of MSR, Gunvalkyrie which I knew was meant for Dreamcast, Buffy the Vampire Slayer another was meant to be Dreamcast bound, Crazy Taxi 3: High Roller, Sega GT 2002 along with games which would have piqued my interest such as Morrowind and Jedi Outcast were out  but really a lot of games I had played on Dreamcast or thought I might have got on Dreamcast where getting sequels on this Xbox system.

Christmas 2002, I got an Xbox which was bundle of Blinx, Jet Set Radio Future & SEGA GT on one disc and then DO3 & Halo from my uncle. It was the SEGA games that got me in, of course we would later find out (may have known at the time) the Xbox was going to be backwards compatible with the Dreamcast and MS wanted this partnership with SEGA which was down to Peter Moore (recently spoke in regard to 20 years of Xbox in relation to SEGA and the Dreamcast living on all these years later).

It ended up being a great system for a SEGA fan of course all three did with things like Billy Hatcher on GameCube, yet on Xbox I got Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Dead or Alive 3, Dead or Alive Ultimate, Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball, Crazy Taxi 3,  GunValkyrie, Headhunter: Redemption, The House of the Dead III, Jet Set Radio Future, Ninja Gaiden/Black (knew was TeamNinja), Otogi (I've actually finished at least two FromSoftware games), Otogi 2, OutRun 2/2006, Panzer Dragoon Orta, Phantasy Star Online: Episode 1&2, Project Gotham Racing, PGR2, Sega GT 2002, Shenmue II, Sonic's, ToeJam & Earl III: Mission to Earth.

In turn having the OG Xbox, the SEGA stuff got me in to it, yet as I had Xbox I tried Halo, Star Wars games, Fable, Conker because of the RARE name and so on that the OG Xbox with its more robust 3rd party support than the GameCube, online on games over the PS2 and enhanced features being the most powerful it became my default console for the rest of the generation and where you'd find me playing likes of GTA San Andreas.

All this later make me excited about the 360 knowing I'd get to finish the fight with Halo 3, Dead or Alive 4, PGR3, Fable 2 and new things from RARE like Kameo. Thanks to SEGA, I became a fan of Xbox and Nintendo in away as well.

OrangeRakoon wrote:

gjones wrote:

I took a (stupidly long) look at the top-rated PS2 games over at Gintendo to see which ones actually require a PS2. Enjoy!

This bit is funny:

Quote :

For some reason, the PS2 saw a revised version of the N64/PlayStation/Dreamcast platformer Rayman 2. Acclaimed at the time, is this really what you’re craving a PS2 for?

Because that's exactly what I bought a new PS2 a couple of months ago to play

Damn, thanks for reading! I've been listening to Matthew Castle too much lately, and should really get around to playing Rayman 2. It was highly regarded at the time everywhere except N64 Magazine, which, the more I think about it, were often off the mark with some of their reviews. That's another topic for another day...

@Mas, funny you bring up the original Xbox, I went into a nice retro store yesterday in Swindon and took a look at what they had. I picked up a few games that hopefully work on my 360, but the consoles started at £60, and considering how big and ugly they are, I'm reluctant to get the actual system again. Especially with the disc drive issues. When you put the Gamecube design next to the Xbox/PS2, it still looks modern. Even the N64 still looks classy next to the Xbox and 360, and I think that is another reason people don't really collect early Xbox stuff. Part of the retro thing is having it on your shelf and nobody needs a fluorescent green breezeblock under their telly.

I've not collected many games for the OG part from ones work on Series X which is 64ish, as few like Halo and Fable been remastered anyway.

Then 3rd party like Tomb Raider Legend, I'll get on Cube as even though inferior, I've got 100+ Cube games and collect for it.

PS2 is the exclusives I've got on that or maybe odd thing like Silent Hill 2/3/4.

I think Rayman 2 is quite good, it’s a solid 7/10 for me. The 3DS version is still cheap if you’re looking for a convenient way of playing what is essentially the PS2/Dreamcast game. It feels best on Dreamcast though, if that makes sense.

It’s only that SEGA stuff that masofdas mentioned that’s ever tempted me to get the original Xbox. That said, with the Sonic games that were ported from the Dreamcast, the Super Monkey Ball games and the handful of other random stuff like Beach Spikers and Virtua Striker 20-02, I think GameCube got the much better end of the bargain. I’ve got a 360 though, but the only things I go back to are the download versions of NiGHTS, Daytona USA and Sonic CD.

Xbox also got Monkey Ball, so it's do ya want Panzer Dragoon Orta or Virtua Striker, the answer both.

Plus best way at the time (maybe some PC thing now) to play Outrun 2, if you care about performance etc (why it's so expensive now I'm guessing).

Cappa wrote:

I think GameCube got the much better end of the bargain.

That's an interesting take, and I guess if you throw in F-Zero GX it's a very good argument. I kind of wish SEGA had put their games on every platform but guess the arcade architecture played into this. There must have been some logic behind why PS2 and Gamecube got Crazy Taxi, but Xbox got Crazy Taxi 3. And nobody got Crazy Taxi 2 (except PSP I guess).

masofdas wrote:

Xbox also got Monkey Ball, so it's do ya want Panzer Dragoon Orta or Virtua Striker, the answer neither.

Fixed

masofdas wrote:

Plus best way at the time (maybe some PC thing now) to play Outrun 2, if you care about performance etc (why it's so expensive now I'm guessing).

I'm not sure there's much difference between the versions - the Xbox version would have had a much smaller print-run than the PS2 given it came out after the 360 launched. That's my guess why it's stupid money.

Take that Panzer Dragoon Orta is a banger.

Possibly but the best version for most part on Xbox, no not everyone cares and even more boring now in 2021 of the PS5 version is 1860p 60fps and Series X is 2160p 60fps, ohh no PS5 version unplayable but is a thing.

I wanted to share this, as it's a fantastic look back at just how big a shift Gran Turismo 3 was at the time. It's also a great reminder of how much this generation of games established what we have now.

Cheers for sharing that, I’ll watch it later on.

It’s good to see a channel as prolific and well-regarded as Digital Foundry pay attention to Gran Turismo 3 A-Spec’s influence. In my case, I’d definitely never played anything up to that point that was as technically advanced, or as graphically realistic, or as mechanically detailed, or as life-consumingly involved. It broke new ground for me, and it was 100% the game that got me into all types of racers - especially the ones from that utterly brilliant generation. I have to think that this was the case for millions of other PlayStation 2 owners at the time as well. It was a massive leap forward in terms of what I and all the other PlayStation 2 owners had been playing up to that point.

I feel a bit sad that I don’t have the time, patience or energy to go through something like Gran Turismo 3 A-Spec ever again. When it was new twenty years ago though, I can’t remember using my PS2 for anything else for months and months. Very fond memories.

Digital Foundry have some excellent retrospective videos - proper in-depth content that is usually 1 hour +. I do like their detailed, analytical approach to videos as it sets them apart from the endless swathe of Youtubers. Check out their Ridge Racer and F-Zero videos.

I would love to revisit Gran Turismo 3, but given there's a ton of recent car-PGs (Project Cars, Grid, Gran Turismo 7) I should probably play them instead. My brain is also overlooking the amount of grind/faff in GT3.

I’ve been half-tempted to buy GRID Autosport for the Switch – it seems like it’s the closest thing to Gran Turismo on there, and it suits me a lot better as a mostly handheld gamer these days. I actually gave Gran Turismo on the PSP a go a little while back, but it’s really stripped back and just didn’t satisfy what I was after.

Many of my memories of Gran Turismo 3 are with those endurance races, and working through the twelve-track championships where the races had fifteen laps each but you could use the fastest cars. That’s where all its excitement was. I don’t doubt that there was loads of grinding and faff before that – I’ve got vaguer memories of a ‘Yaris Cup’ and another with just Mini Coopers that struggled to reach 10mph. Also, the license tests alone would make me never want to play it’s Career Mode again.

Those slow cars often made me question why I wasn't playing something more fun, but they do add to the sense of progression when you do get to race the faster cars. My main memory of Gran Turismo 3 is obtaining a Dodge Viper and pumping all my currency earned into its BHP. I got it to 1000BHP which meant it couldn't handle any corner - the Laguna Seca was a nightmare. Was like F-Zero on the straights though

I enjoyed doing my GameCube list in the other thread, that I got to thinking about the other three systems from the 6th gen.

OG Xbox Top 20 for 20th UK Anniversary

Pretty easy to do as the exclusives are top-notch, then mix in stuff like TimeSplitters 2 with system link and others with online, that I could have easily done a list of more than 20 good games.

PS2 Top 22 for 22nd UK Anniversary

I really struggled for 22 games for the PS2, as above played like of TimeSplitters 2 on OG Xbox and stuff you'd think I would have played such as Final Fantasy X I didn't. Yet the first 12 or so games absolute bangers.

Much like the OG Xbox, maybe even slightly easily due to the small library which in turn are pretty much all exclusive games, which makes the DC such a unique system. NBA 2K2 is a bit an of cheat one, as all the 2K sports games are great and part of why got into NFL due to the few I played on the DC. It was also some more fighting games like Third Strike that had a shout to make the list.

Top 30 Overall 6th Generation games

Title gives it away, this is the best games from the gen combined IMO which 11 are from my GameCube list, 10 from OG Xbox, 8 from PS2 and 4 from Dreamcast.

Like I said at the start enjoyed doing this, and I'd be keen to do PS1, N64, Sat etc like this as well sometime.

Interesting how only 4 out of 30 were on your Dreamcast list. Isn't that your favourite system?

I had Gungrave on PS2 - it's definitely not Top 22 material Also, is that Devil May Cry 2? Isn't that the "bad" one? Daytona on Dreamcast - did you actually enjoy it? I found the controls almost unplayable. There's a lot to unpick here. Sonic Adventure over Crazy Taxi? Good to see another Power Stone 2 fan - what a game! They need to sort their artwork out over at GGapp.io

Cube is my favourite system but Dreamcast second it might not have a load of 9s but loads of decent 7s and 9s.

No it's Devil May Cry 3 not 2.

masofdas wrote:

No it's Devil May Cry 3 not 2.

It looked like a II in white and a 2 at the end. I should get down the opticians.

Boxart though

OK, this took many an hour of deliberation and ensuring ranking was consistent across consoles...

Dreamcast:

PS2:

Xbox:

6th Generation:

Pretty happy with that. Obviously, Wind Waker, Halo, and Metal Gear Solid aren't here but those are all games I've played a bit and never given a proper second chance.

I probably need to revise my All-time list now

That's the version of Virtua Fighter 4, I should have gone for.

I don’t have the knowledge to rank my favourite Dreamcast or Xbox games to that extent. I could maybe eek out a top ten for the Dreamcast, one where Who Wants To Be A Millionaire? would be on it by default of being the tenth Dreamcast game I’ve played and liked. I don’t think I could even manage a top five for the Xbox.

PS2 might be a different story, but loads of the stuff youse have got – I’m seeing Metal Gear Solid, Kingdom Hearts, ICO, Shadow of the Collosus, God of War for examples – wouldn’t be on mine. The PS2 was a pretty much a WWE and PES console for me back in the day, with the odd Aqua Aqua: Wetrix 2.0 session stuck in between.

That's pretty much my experience only swap Xbox with Dreamcast and I'd only manage a Top 5 with that because of stuff that was ported to the GameCube.

I picked up this, which I have never played


This brings me to (not unique though) 120 games for the GameCube over 2 North American, 22 Japanese and 96 European games, that seems a lot yet looking at a list of NA/Euro games still I'd like to pick up

Baten Kaitos Origins
Capcom vs. SNK 2
Chibi-Robo!
Cubivore
Dancing Stage: Mario Mix
Darkened Skye
Digimon World 4
Evolution Worlds
Go! Go! Hypergrind
Gotcha Force
Kirby Air Ride
Mario Party 6 and 7
Mario Superstar Baseball
Mega Man games
Mystic Heroes
Odama
Pokémon Box
The Simpsons Hit & Run

Amongst others like, I'm keen on the NBA Street games and even LOTOR for the Cube, still a decent library to look out for.