Counting Classics on Consoles

Subject: Re: Counting Classics on Consoles Tue 25 Aug 2015 - 0:35

Mario Tennis - Yes.
JFG - No, couldn't get along with it
Pokémon Stadium - Yes
SWSotE - No - was a bit of a mess
SWRS - Abstain
Wave Race - Yes
1080 - Yes
Snowboard Kids - YES
Pilotwings 64 - YES
The New Tetris - abstain
Worms Armageddon - No - played it quite a bit but there's better versions
Banjo Tooie - YES -
Mario Party 2 - YES

Some more to vote on:

Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon
Yoshi's Story
Mario Golf
Shadow Man
Turok
ISS 64
Mission Impossible
Resident Evil 2
Ogew Battle 64

Subject: Re: Counting Classics on Consoles Tue 25 Aug 2015 - 2:08

Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon - abstain
Yoshi's Story - abstain
Mario Golf - Yes
Shadow Man - No
Turok - Yes
ISS 64 - Yes
Mission Impossible - No
Resident Evil 2 - yes, this version made some interesting changes.
Ogre Battle 64 - abstain

Subject: Re: Counting Classics on Consoles Tue 25 Aug 2015 - 9:12

Phew! I think we're up to date now. Handed out some Ns to games I'd barely heard of, to Mario Party 2 (I don't think any game in that series deserves classic status), and Yoshi's Story - though cute, it didn't reach classic status, not by a long shot.

Other games got yeses. Wasn't ISS 98 better than ISS 64 though? And MNSG might be more cult-classic territory.

Here's one - Pokémon Stadium 2. I thought that the prequel was hamstrung by its iffy battling: all-but-invincible psychics, and what the hell was the Petit Cup? PS2 not only added much more stuff (Earl's Academy was serebii.net before the Internet was reliable), but had sound-enough underlying mechanics to make a decent game out of its battling.

Subject: Re: Counting Classics on Consoles Tue 25 Aug 2015 - 18:20

On the new ones

Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon, No
Yoshi's Story, Yes
Mario Golf, Yes
Shadow Man, No
Turok, Yes
ISS 64, No
Mission Impossible, No
Resident Evil 2, No because the PS1 game is the classic
Ogew Battle 64, No
Pokemon Stadium 2, Yes

Subject: Re: Counting Classics on Consoles Tue 25 Aug 2015 - 19:32

I can't chime in on any but Pokemon Stadium 2, which I'm giving a no. I wouldn't call any of the console Pokemon battlers like Stadium 2 classics. They're perfectly okay games, but I don't think they stand up next to any of the N64's truly classic games.

Subject: Re: Counting Classics on Consoles Tue 25 Aug 2015 - 20:24

SM64 Yes
LoZOoT Yes
LoZMM Yes
Blast Corps Yes
MK64 Yes
Goldeneye Yes
Space Station Silicon Valley No
S&P No
Conker's BFD No
Lylat Wars Yes
Pokémon Snap No
F-Zero X Yes
WWF No Mercy Yes
Doom 64 No
Paper Mario Yes
Banjo-Kazooie Yes
Diddy Kong Racing Yes
Donkey Kong 64 No
Perfect Dark Yes
Smash Bros. Yes
Mario Tennis Yes
Jet Force GEmini No
Pokémon Stadium No
SWSotE No
SWRS No
Wave Race 64 Yes
1080 Yes
Snowboard Kids No
Pilotwings 64 Yes
The New Tetris No
Worms Armageddon No
Banjo Tooie No
Mario Party 2 No
MNSG No
Yoshi's Story No
Mario Golf Yes
Shadowman No
Turok Yes
ISS 64 No
Mission Impossible No
Resident Evil 2 No
Ogre Battle 64 No
Pokemon Stadium 2 No

Subject: Re: Counting Classics on Consoles Tue 25 Aug 2015 - 21:45

Wow - this list is getting crazy

Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon - Abstain
Yoshi's Story - No - not as good as the original
Mario Golf - Yeah
Shadow Man - Yeah, I think
Turok - Nope
ISS 64 - Yeah! "What sort of game... can we expect"
Mission Impossible - Nope
Resident Evil 2 - Abstain
Ogre Battle 64 - Abstain
Pokemon Stadium 2 - No, as much fun as I had with it

Subject: Re: Counting Classics on Consoles Wed 26 Aug 2015 - 0:18

mas wrote:: Resident Evil 2, No because the PS1 game is the classic

I know that's the format where Resi made it's name but since the N64 port isn't a broken mess but also made some improvements then why shouldn't it be considered a classic n64 game? I just don't see why it shouldn't be deemed a classic just because it's on a different system.

Subject: Re: Counting Classics on Consoles Wed 26 Aug 2015 - 7:34

I'm with Mas here. I don't know to what degree RE2 upgraded the original, so I abstained, but I feel that a port ought to make some serious changes to be considered a classic - otherwise, the original is, at the port's expense.

That said, Mas, you were quite happy about voting up a compilation of ports on the SNES. What's the difference?

Subject: Re: Counting Classics on Consoles Wed 26 Aug 2015 - 8:00

Like I said about Doom and Mr Bob said the same that's not the classic version of that game.

Same applies to RE2, yeah N64 port is great but the CGI isn't as good far a start and I remember it feeling a bit clunky on it compared to the PS1 (which I can't ever remember being broken) and like I said about All-Stars, if you were buying a SNES that's a game you should get on that system where I feel that you don't need to get RE2 (if you can afford it) on N64.

And I would gather Mr Bob also went No for similar reasons.

Subject: Re: Counting Classics on Consoles Wed 26 Aug 2015 - 9:33

Since this counting classics is only including Nintendo systems I just find it bizarre that RE2 might not make the cut on those grounds when the same great gameplay was retained.

balla wrote:: but I feel that a port ought to make some serious changes to be considered a classic - otherwise, the original is, at the port's expense.

How about a randomiser that placed items differently during each play through or a more responsive control scheme? That second one gave the game alternate controls where up moved you up and down was down etc.

Subject: Re: Counting Classics on Consoles Wed 26 Aug 2015 - 9:41

For me, personally, that wouldn't make enough of a difference (unless the original's control scheme was all but unplayable). Fair play to you if you think it is, though. And we have talked about doing other consoles after I've ploughed through the Nintendo ones.

masofdas wrote:: ...and like I said about All-Stars, if you were buying a SNES that's a game you should get on that system where I feel that you don't need to get RE2 (if you can afford it) on N64.

I still don't follow. Surely if you've already got SMB1/2/3, the same applies to SMAS - you shouldn't get it if you've already got the original (and played it recently, let's say)? Unless you feel that the changes are big enough to warrant it.

Subject: Re: Counting Classics on Consoles Wed 26 Aug 2015 - 9:59

I wasn't the only one to put say yes to SMAS.

If Balla let's me , I've got a plan for the others due to systems like the Jaguar which has like 2 classics that a whole week is silly and are history outside of Nintendo as gamers is various.

The most Bizarre thing is RAREs best game which is on N64 isn't getting in.

Subject: Re: Counting Classics on Consoles Wed 26 Aug 2015 - 11:19

The Resident Evil 2 thing is interesting, as I also don't think it's a classic N64 game. It's a bit like saying Resident Evil 2 is a classic Dreamcast game, as it was ported and released a few months after the N64 version. It's not. It's a re-release of a classic game, on a different console.

It could get complicated when stuff like Resident Evil 4 pop up, as would that be a classic Gamecube game (yes), a classic PS2 game, or even a classic Wii game? It's a classic game, so would the first console it appears on clear this up? The thing is, Tomb Raider would not be considered a classic Playstation game, but a classic Saturn game instead. Irrelevant example I know, as it's non-Nintendo...

Subject: Re: Counting Classics on Consoles Wed 26 Aug 2015 - 11:52

You make some good points, I think it should be the system you think off when your talking about X game or what system made it what it is. As the Saturn didn't make Tomb Raider, the PS1 did.

Subject: Re: Counting Classics on Consoles Wed 26 Aug 2015 - 13:56

You guys know Doom 64's not a port of Doom, right?

Subject: Re: Counting Classics on Consoles Wed 26 Aug 2015 - 16:36

That makes it even more of a No.

How hasn't Kirby 64, Body Harvest, Turok 2, Excite Bike 64 come up

Subject: Re: Counting Classics on Consoles Wed 26 Aug 2015 - 17:07

They have now!

Kirby got mediocre reviews at the time; Turok 2, N64 famously regretted giving it the score it did. Abstains for the other two.

Subject: Re: Counting Classics on Consoles Wed 26 Aug 2015 - 17:14

Turok 2 did add to the first with some great multiplayer the other 3 are more so-so, I would give yes to them though but I did think they would of come up.

Subject: Re: Counting Classics on Consoles Wed 26 Aug 2015 - 20:11

gjones wrote:: The Resident Evil 2 thing is interesting, as I also don't think it's a classic N64 game. It's a bit like saying Resident Evil 2 is a classic Dreamcast game, as it was ported and released a few months after the N64 version. It's not. It's a re-release of a classic game, on a different console.

It could get complicated when stuff like Resident Evil 4 pop up, as would that be a classic Gamecube game (yes), a classic PS2 game, or even a classic Wii game? It's a classic game, so would the first console it appears on clear this up? The thing is, Tomb Raider would not be considered a classic Playstation game, but a classic Saturn game instead. Irrelevant example I know, as it's non-Nintendo...

I think this is all getting overly complicated, if the game itself is a classic then surely all ports (if done really well) should be labelled classic by default.

Subject: Re: Counting Classics on Consoles Wed 26 Aug 2015 - 20:22

For me, one of the big features (not the only one) that makes a classic game is imagination and ideas. A port has next to none.

I'll give HGSS a classic vote when it comes to it, because it improved over the original so much. No other port that I can think of off the top of my head is worthy.

Subject: Re: Counting Classics on Consoles Wed 26 Aug 2015 - 23:26

The_Jaster wrote:: I think this is all getting overly complicated, if the game itself is a classic then surely all ports (if done really well) should be labelled classic by default.

I'd agree with you to a point, but isn't the end result here going to be comparable lists of classic games by console? In which case, the game should be considered a classic on the console it is most associated with.

This will be even more complicated when we're into the GCN/ PS2/ XBox era onwards, where you're regularly getting simultaneous multiformat releases.

Subject: Re: Counting Classics on Consoles Thu 27 Aug 2015 - 0:36

Drunkalilly wrote:

The_Jaster wrote:: I think this is all getting overly complicated, if the game itself is a classic then surely all ports (if done really well) should be labelled classic by default.

I'd agree with you to a point, but isn't the end result here going to be comparable lists of classic games by console? In which case, the game should be considered a classic on the console it is most associated with.

I suppose so but I just thought I'd point out how odd it seems to me, the way I was kind of approaching this thread is acting like only Nintendo systems existed so even if a game that wasn't associated typically with Nintendo and was good enough then I'd suggest it.

Subject: Re: Counting Classics on Consoles Thu 27 Aug 2015 - 9:21

Swooping in to vote again! Grin

There will be much abstaining in the land. Duh!

Spoiler:

Now with comments! Shocked

Subject: Re: Counting Classics on Consoles Thu 27 Aug 2015 - 9:37

ZeroJones wrote:: Pokémon Stadium 2 - NO (as great as it was to a young Pokémon fan, it'd be an app now)

Oh goodness, I hope not. Aww!

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