The Best Legend of Zelda

Link's Awakening has been robbed

Balladeer wrote:

Really, only three?  Oh well, had the vote happened a bit later I might have been able to include Twilight Picross, but it didn't.  But what happened to my comment?

The_Jaster wrote:

Well, I didn't enjoy MM at all but I do like SS (great combat) & ALBW so I don't think it would have changed much actually.

I was thinking from an ALBW point of view, although I'm surprised that your love for the combat would have superseded the lack of continuous world and exploration.

Ahh I see, even though the world was disjointed in SS I still liked being in it as it was full to the brim of charm & with wii motion+ combat I feel they could be more adventurous with their enemy designs which made it fresher compared to other 3d Zelda games.

----

That is a solid top three of 2d Zeldas but I'd personally replace LttP with Link's Awakening DX.

I gotta be honest - and I know I'm gonna get s... I don't like Link's Awakening that much! I get told that me liking a certain N64 game is based on nostalgia rather than the game holding up. I'd argue that this goes double for LA.

Number 3: The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time

N64, 3DS
62 points, 1 first
An all time masterpiece, regularly voted the greatest game of all time, and our third best Zelda. Well, you can't win 'em all!

You said:

I say:

They said:

I like Link's Awakening - my comment on it (for I gave it my 'coveted' 10th position) said something about its "woozy atmosphere". Fun game, enjoyed playing and replaying it, bettered many times since.

Ocarina was my sixth, for reasons that Drunka exactly nailed in his 'I say' section. I s'pose that means we can all guess the top two but which order are they in?! It's so tense!

Wow.  The order has been really unpredictable!  I guess that makes this a good vote?  That said, I can see some of youse think of OoT in the same way as I think of LttP.  Didn't expect that.

So I'd like to present a couple of stories that might help shift that perception.  As you know, I don't see the point of voting for things for what they did back in the day - I vote for them on how good a game they are now, and OoT, I believe, is A Very Good Game Indeed.





First story: I didn't finish OoT right back in the day.  Not even close.  When I got it at age 9, it was an unwanted Christmas present (I wanted ISS 98 because I had all the taste and discernment of a short-sighted amoeba).  I never got past Dodongo's Cavern, falling on one easy bit over and over again.  I denounced it "boring", the harshest word I had at the time (one I'd also used about SM64 when I couldn't get all 120 stars ), and left it gratefully.

It took until WW's release, and the bonus disc, for me to give it a go again.  Of course I tried WW first, in its beautiful technicolour.  However, at some point quite early on in WW, I thought I'd swap out for the bonus disc of OoT, see if I could get past that bit this time.  Of course I could, but despite OoT looking old even then in comparison to its beauty of a brother, WW didn't get back into my disc slot until I'd completed OoT.  The game grabbed me by the collar and wouldn't let go.


Second story: despite this, I held that OoT didn't age well.  About ten years or so after finishing it for the first time, more to prove a point than anything else, I went back to it, and was proved right.  This time, I didn't even make a serious try at Jabu-Jabu.  My big complaints were that Hyrule Field was large and dull, and that the game felt old and ugly.  

Then the 3D version came along, and I played it right the way through and loved it.  I agree with Drunka, the original has not aged well - but it didn't have to, because it got a recreation later on.





OoT may feel somewhat vanilla now, but it also makes very few missteps.  In the 3D version, which also fixed the Water Temple, I reckon that the sparseness of Hyrule Field, the polygon-boobs of the Great Fairies, and the disorienting garishness of Jabu-Jabu are the only flaws.  And of course, like most Zeldas, it has several memories that will stay in the mind for a long time after completing the game.

As I've said many a time, the combination of the original and the port makes it into my top ten games ever, for a mixture of the original ideas and the fact that they're still playable now, where neither would alone.  My second place, and I'm very glad to see it where it is.


This vote has definitely thrown up a few shocks, in order if not in games; but if TP outplaces WW to the title on this place, I'll replace my avatar with Tingle.  (cue Drunka fixing the votes)

Jimbob wrote:

I gotta be honest - and I know I'm gonna get s... I don't like Link's Awakening that much! I get told that me liking a certain N64 game is based on nostalgia rather than the game holding up. I'd argue that this goes double for LA.

Both OoT and LA hold up brilliantly even today. LA has some great dungeon design, the story remains unique and memorable, and the whimsical nature and humour of the game isn't something that really ages. I'll admit that I have huge nostalgia for the game (and OoT) but even without that it's a fantastic game.

I'm upset by the number of people here who don't rate OoT, especially when compared to TP. TP was OoT again, bigger and better looking, but it fails to replicate so much of the spirit of the game. Try and match up any of the iconic and memorable moments in OoT to TP and it's no contest - OoT is full of them and TP has very, very few. For example, leaving Kokiri forest > leaving Ordon village, despite the forced attempts in TP to attach you to the place. The death of the Great Deku Tree (and Navi's lingering hover), and being gifted the Ocarina by Saria - these are emotionally impacting scenes that TP lacks, despite TP having a lot longer to provide them. Another example, the midgame jump in OoT. Obtaining the master sword and jumping seven years into the future is done masterfully. TP's gimmick of the Twilight Realm lacks a similar moment and doesn't bring much to the game (other than probably the worst sections gameplay-wise). One more example, getting Epona in OoT > getting Epona in TP. In OoT Epona is a real character with a backstory who you get to know, see grow up, and then rescue in a climactic race and escape from the ranch. Getting Epona feels like a real achievement and changes the way you play the game and explore - it opens up so much of the world and just feels so good. In contrast, in TP you just get given Epona and that's that. The horseback combat is really fun and much better mechanically than OoT but the emotional connection is incomparable, which makes it ultimately so much less memorable.

I could go on

The weird thing about this vote is I don't dislike any Zelda game. They're all masterpieces, and I could have a wonderful time even playing the N64 Ocarina of Time. I just think a lot of the other ones are better.

Drunkalilly wrote:

The weird thing about this vote is I don't dislike any Zelda game. They're all masterpieces, and I could have a wonderful time even playing the N64 Ocarina of Time.

This is exactly it - almost all Zelda games are brilliant (sorry, Adventure of Link) and the differences between the best ones are very slight sometimes. This, combined with our differing opinions, has moved things about a bit from what might be considered the norm. For my money, the games I'm currently imagining are the top two are the ones I thought they'd be.

Really Balla, I thought this was the most predictable Top 5 at least and even the order ever.

In what some might consider an extreme point of view, I don't consider all the Zelda games as "masterpieces". If I give games getting 9/10 or more by my scale "masterpieces", I think that maybe 4 or 5 of them are, with Majora's Mask (3D) a rank outside possibility that makes up for its frustrating gameplay with masterful storytelling.

I do think that all of what will be the top three are masterpieces, though. And the only one I actively dislike (that I've played) is the original.

OoT >>>>>>>>>> TP

Fact.  If only because while the former is barebones by current standards TP had far too much irrelevant crap.  A worse triforce hunt and some of the single most tedious segments in the entire franchise in the bug hunts.  It also came with unecessary forced sentimental drama, I never defeated King Bubblin for Colin, Colin could have clown off the cliff with him for all I cared, I defeated King Bubblin because kicking his keister was fun.  Same with Ilia's stupid memories.  

OoT's highs were also better crafted.  TP had all the subtlety of a Megaton Hammer to the face.  

Not that TP was bad or anything, but it didn't try to be new, and it was far too fat.  In fact I feel if the game had been rushed it would have ended up a better game, it would have forced the team to choose the most important parts of the game, with the lesser parts being chopped, resulting in a focus on what were very good segments. As it stands the fat dilutes it, muddies it.

There were other issues with the game, however if it wasn't as overly long and bloated as it is those other issues would cease to be such.

Just getting my TP thoughts aired, because it's obviously taking the top spot.

I'll probably respond to O_R's post when the final results come out.  But TP isn't winning, sadly.

I didn't say anything

Balladeer wrote:

The inevitable TP favourtism is why I didn't vote.  I haven't played more than eight Zelda games, can't let it have my points so no vote.



. . .


Saying that out loud makes me realize how whack that logic is.  

You could have just submitted seven votes!

Should've just submitted seven other games!  (EDIT: Beaten to the punch before I even posted.)

Anyway, like I said, I don't think TP is even going to win.  And I bet it'll have come not that far off OoT - nostalgia counts for bucketloads.  (Plus OoT (3D) is an amazing game, mustn't forget that.)

Number 2: The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess

Gamecube, Wii, Wii U
62 points, 3 firsts
The relative quality of pieces of art is subjective.

You said:

I say:

They said:

If only Athrun had voted, this would've come below OoT!

The last comment is, of course, mine.  Full "defence" when I'm at home.  (Also, something's off with that numbering, Drunka...) Nothing to see here.

Sssh, I don't quote the previous entry to save myself redoing the formatting...

Quote :

the best final boss encounter in the series.

OoT, MM, WW, SS all have better final bosses. It's Ganondorf in a field...

Quote :

of course the wonderful Midna, who makes having a Zelda advisor fun

Most annoying assistant in the series tbh

Quote :

a Hyrule Field that's sprawling without being an empty expanse

But it /is/ an empty expanse

Quote :

the wolf segments

... (the worst parts by far)

[/bait] (but I'm right )

Quote :

MGS3 which I always rated low for MGS games

Worst comment in the thread

OrangeRakoon wrote:

Quote :

MGS3 which I always rated low for MGS games

Worst comment in the thread

That's the first, and probably last, time you've ever spoken sense

2 will do, my favourite, but I think, unless there's a massive plot twist and Spirit Tracks comes out on top, I'm happy for it to lose to what it has. I struggle to decide which is better between them sometimes.