If...

No, no Logan Pauling, please.

My answer is whatever genre Solar Jetman was. Now that was a great game.

IF there was one game that you wish Nintendo could have made, what would it be?

[this could be a game that exists that you wish Nintendo had made, or a game that doesn't exist that you wish Nintendo could have made]

For a game that exists, Okami. Because then we'd have got the HD version, and probably a threequel by now, on Nintendo machines.

For one that doesn't, but could have done, the Paper Mario that Nintendo staff pitched to Shigsy... which he shot down, saying it was too like TTYD, and which eventually became Sticker Star.

ZeroJones wrote:

My answer is whatever genre Solar Jetman was. Now that was a great game.

IS THE CORRECT ANSWER





As for Nintendo: I wish they'd had a say on Psychonauts. The original was a great laugh - very very clever. But the platforming itself was sometimes a bit clunky; Nintendo would've smoothed out the edges. (Also the sequel would be coming to Switch, and perhaps not reliant on crowdfunding)

Psychonauts is something I've been planning to play for years and the PSVR semi-sequel looked decent.

Your picks have sort of influenced me as I'm saying Beyond Good and Evil as it could be Nintendo's darker adventure series.

Secret Of Mana is my answer. Maybe then the translation would have been a bit better, or maybe you could actually train up all the weapons to their highest levels... but Nintendo would for sure have a top action RPG series on its hands. The sequels may not have been increasingky pants, either. Sigh. Anyway.

IF you had the ability to ensure everyone in gaming would have to type it the same way forever, which would it be: ‘video game’ or ‘videogame’?

Videogame. That said, I really wish we could come up with a new name that doesn't have the connotations of competition and stuff that comes with "game". The problem is that all the other suggestions I've heard, like "interactive experiences", sound like some wanky bollocks.

'Videogame'. 'Interactive entertainment' is fine too, and a bit less wanky than Drunka's suggestion, but I like games being games in all honesty. There's room for art under that classification too, to my mind.

I understand - but I think that, a decade from now, no-one will see the word "videogame" and think "game". It's like films/movies; which ever word you use, you don't associate "films" with actual film, and movies is short for moving pictures, which sounds like an animated GIF or something.

(personally I think we should go back to calling them computer games )

Video game. Seeing it as one word absolutely triggers me. It'd be like people calling "full cream milk" as "fullcream milk". It'd drive me round the bend seeing that all the time, knowing the two words should be separate.

My take is ‘video game’ too, because we don’t call them ‘boardgames’ or ‘cardgames’.

ZeroJones wrote:

My take is ‘video game’ too, because we don’t call them ‘boardgames’ or ‘cardgames’.

Your reasons for separate words are almost the same as my reasons for one word. Videogames are such a rich, unique medium for art and storytelling, I want to separate them from anything else they might be lumped in with.

I'm with Zero on this one and wasn't it CVG, not CV.

I do think it will or has gone like Jimbob says, as not all games are games and I even though I'm not big on Interactive Entertainment / Experience name as someone that plays a lot of those and excited for the likes of Erica coming to PS4 which is FMV and I just make some choices along the way isn't really a "game" that it is an Interactive Entertainment / Experience.

Drunkalilly wrote:

ZeroJones wrote:

My take is ‘video game’ too, because we don’t call them ‘boardgames’ or ‘cardgames’.

Your reasons for separate words are almost the same as my reasons for one word. Videogames are such a rich, unique medium for art and storytelling, I want to separate them from anything else they might be lumped in with.

I feel that sells short other media, but then I'm a bit sceptical about the whole 'games are art' thingy anyway - not because I think games can't be art, I should stress.

Does that mean I should be supporting 'video game'?

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Real answer: Video games.

See, if I experience a finer piece of art than Celeste during the rest of 2018, I will count myself a very lucky man.

I think Celeste is a splendid piece of art. It's also got elements of making you feel more powerful than you are (and elements of not, granted), an Assist Mode for those who don't want to experience the developer's perfect vision and just want to finish the game, and... well... is a pretty good game. All things that I feel people tend to wave the 'games R art' banner around to label as non-necessary or even undesirable.

I think the whole games as art applies to nearly all games but some like SotC, Journey, Gone Home are art more than games.

masofdas wrote:

I think the whole games as art applies to nearly all games but some like SotC, Journey, Gone Home are art more than games.

I think that's why I couldn't get in to Journey - it just didn't feel like there was enough "game" in the experience. Therefore reluctant to try something like SotC.

gjones wrote:

masofdas wrote:

I think the whole games as art applies to nearly all games but some like SotC, Journey, Gone Home are art more than games.

I think that's why I couldn't get in to Journey - it just didn't feel like there was enough "game" in the experience. Therefore reluctant to try something like SotC.

You're not missing much. Awful controls, and a boss rush of a game that fills the gap with not much at all.

gjones wrote:

masofdas wrote:

I think the whole games as art applies to nearly all games but some like SotC, Journey, Gone Home are art more than games.

I think that's why I couldn't get in to Journey - it just didn't feel like there was enough "game" in the experience. Therefore reluctant to try something like SotC.

If you thought that about Journey then you'll very likely feel much the same about SoTC, I just finished it for the first time about 10 minutes ago and while it has some stunning set pieces/colossi I felt the same throughout which is a combo of frustration and boredom.

Loving these SotC opinions guys.

Drunkalilly wrote:

ZeroJones wrote:

My take is ‘video game’ too, because we don’t call them ‘boardgames’ or ‘cardgames’.

Your reasons for separate words are almost the same as my reasons for one word. Videogames are such a rich, unique medium for art and storytelling, I want to separate them from anything else they might be lumped in with.

This is my reasoning for preferring "Videogames". We have so many different genres within Videogames themselves that lumping them in with things like Monopoly just seems a bit naff. This of course becomes much more confusing when you consider the videogame adaptations of Monopoly/Uno, etc.

Do I remember you playing Flower gJones and kinda liked it? I do feel that it is an art game but unlike Journey which the game is all about the journey you go on, Flower has a gaming structure of levels and a goal in each of them which I think is the difference between them.

On SoTc, Athrun is talking about the PS2 original or least the remaster which was the same in how it played, now based on those, Team Ico collection is in my Top 25 of all-time but I've not played Ico for 16 years and SotC for 12 years, that he might be right about those versions and if they play anything like The Last Guardian, then yeah the controls might be a valid issue.

The thing is the remake the controls even if you select the classic input of triangle for jump instead of cross, they've still been tweaked and long with the stamina meter etc after playing the remake after all that time it cemented Team Ico collection in my Top 25.

Thing is even though I gave the remake a 9.5/10 and I can't see me playing anything better this year, I doubt I'll count it as part of GOTY 2018 as it's a remake even though the 2017 Podcast will tell you different (what's happened to that?) from others, I do have to agree with Jas about frustration and I said in the last retro game you played thread that to me that's one of the aspects of the game as you're made to feel like Wander tackling Colossi.

That I don't mind as it's part of the games charm and the art it brings to the table is of Wander's struggle and you as the player feel that, that's the great thing about art we have different interpretations when it comes to it.

But like I said to Jimbob, the SotC remake is £20 you can't lose much, is it a great game maybe not but is it a true masterpiece of the art-form yep.

This all goes into Zero's question through and something brought up on recent episode of IGN's Game Scoop as someone wrote in and said he wasn't feeling like playing anything, then one of the guys on the show said about games being fun with another saying that's not really true any-more bringing up The Last of Us, The Walking Dead etc and like other mediums people now play games for more than just fun.

You may have watched a horror film to feel scared, a comedy to laugh, listened to a sad song to umm feel sad and games can now do that which to mean either term of Videogames or Video Games (the correct way) don't really apply all of the time any-more.

Treesmurf wrote:

Loving these SotC opinions guys.

Drunkalilly wrote:

Videogame. That said, I really wish we could come up with a new name that doesn't have the connotations of competition and stuff that comes with "game". The problem is that all the other suggestions I've heard, like "interactive experiences", sound like some wanky bollocks.

Drunka wrote:

Your reasons for separate words are almost the same as my reasons for one word. Videogames are such a rich, unique medium for art and storytelling, I want to separate them from anything else they might be lumped in with.

I completely agree. Also, Card Games can be abbreviated to Cards - which makes Poker sound less childish. Board "Games" have the same problematic connotations that video 'games' do, but most board games unashamedly emphasise their "gameyness" so I think its less of a problem. Sure there are things like D&D, where storytelling is important, and even games like Risk or Pandemic are going to develop their own unique narratives over the course of a game, but aside from D&D it's always the mechanics of board games that are at the forefront of a session - while the social interaction between players adds the flavour. Even casual things like Trivial Pursuit or Pictionary are fundamentally nothing but mechanics.

Videogames aren't like that, or at least not to the same extent. Taking Gran Turismo, Firewatch, The Sims, and Monster Hunter World takes us through varying levels of mechanics orientated games, toys, and interactive stories.

GT comprises the dryass, hard, simulation side of things. It is 100% mechanical, whereas Firewatch's gamey mechanics are incredibly limited, the emphasis placed on filmic storytelling. It's much closer to a film than GT, but can't be considered a film because it is possible to get stuck even though there's no 'failure state', and it doesn't comprise any film-like editing - if the plot demands the player be somewhere, the player has to take every single step - thank God Lord of the Rings wasn't like that!

On the other hand The Sims is at least as much a toy as it is a game. Sure you can do the whole, try to raise a family, get a sweet job, earn everything. But many Sims "players" prefer to build dream houses, or simply torture Sims. The Sims can be mechanical, aesthetic, the electronic equivalent of bashing your dolls together, or all three.  

Monster Hunter is very "gamey" in the mechanical sense, there's lots of traditional game mechanics like questing, failure states, and exploration. But there are toy-like elements in there too - such as dressing up, choosing silly poses, customising your shouts or decorating a bedroom - things that, to varying extents, have little to do with game mechanics. Clothes have a direct gameplay impact through varying resistances and armour values, but your bedroom doesn't mean anything beyond how the player views their dolly.

My knowledge of Board Games and Cards is quite limited, but I'd wager that in the vast majority of cases they're largely mechanical exercises. Videogames aren't so linear, which is why I dislike the "game" bit of their name, but can't come up with anything better. GT & MH are gamey, but how gamey is The Sims or Firwatch? Is The Sims more mechanical? Maybe, but then again how many people use it as a mechanical exercise and not a toy or a canvas? Are there any Board Games that could fit such a diverse remit?

It's not like The Sims or Firewatch are unusual aberrations to mechanical games either. Prison Architect, Cities: Skylines, Planet Coaster, Theme Park World and Spore are all toy-like [Will Wright, Spore's creator, even described Spore as a toy], or they can be used more as unstructured toys in sandbox modes. Interactive narratives and walking sims are a dime a dozen theses days too, how many Card or Board Games exist that are so heavily narrative first? I'd also argue something like Her Story would muddy gaming definitions even further, it is a deconstructed film presented as a Videogame but devoid of any traditional mechanics so you interact with it in a non-linear way like a child would a toy.



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Re: SOTC Chat. I only played the PS3 version, and I thought it was good but never finished it. I felt it worked best when I was in the right mood, to chill out, wander around, absorb the ambience and appreciate the design of each giant individually. That meant I had to give it back to Luke before I was done, but I feel like playing it that way made me appreciate it a lot more than I would have done, had I been treating it like any other game.

Muss delivering a belter of a post yet again.

I think the reason I wasn't keen on SotC was the mechanics of it all and how it isn't very "gamey" now, I don't expect everything to be like that and I've thoroughly enjoyed stuff like TWD purely for the story and how it absorbed you through the decisions you had to make. But when your main task is to take down these giant beasts even if one thing about it is mechanically frustrating it takes you out of the moment you should be fully immersed in which is why I don't get it when I've seen people along with Mas say "oh it's meant to be a struggle/you're just a kid with a sword" etc. in my book it should be the colossi's AI driving that struggle home not the controls and how they feel.

It isn't terrible by any means and as I said it has some stunning moments but I do think it is massively overhyped.

Sure is and why either term doesn't really fit anymore to me and talking about Her Story, I think the next game from that team is like a YouTube video but you make choices whilst watching.

I'm all for more FMV games.