E Shop and Downloadables Discussion

masofdas wrote:

So just seen Nintendo Life review of Alphadia Genesis which they gave a 6/10, from the reviews there finding similar issues with this as Pier Solar that it has old ideas etc. Which makes me think there just not keen on oldschool jrpgs at NL. Just checked the same guy reviewed both games.

Now I love playing retro games as much as anyone (maybe not balladeer though, natch) but when it's a new game made to look retro by it's art style I don't think it's unfair to expect new ideas from a gameplay perspective, recently games like shovel knight have done this really well so why shouldn't these games?

Also with retro games folk are willing to look past old mechanics because of nostalgia for that particular game since this game is new and contains no nostalgia for anyone it's harder to forgive it for it's old ideas.

I don't even get the nostalgia.

Just read the review and they say that the characters are boring and clichéd. I play JRPGs in the hope that I'll like the characters and world (the story can go hang, since it's almost always as generic as hell), so that's a big no for me. BD didn't have either, but delivered in its relatively innovative battle system and its presentation. This sounds like it has neither.

So, yep, it's another pass from the man who says he likes JRPGs. If I'm going to pick up a downloadable JRPG for the Wii U, it'd probably be (sigh) Pier Solar; but to be honest, I wonder whether I just don't have time for the genre any more.

Hardcore Gamer praised both games, so it's down to peoples tastes and the guy that reviewed those 2 games for NL didn't like them and now we kinda no if a another JRPG comes to the Wii U and gets a 9/10 from him it's going to be dam good. He didn't review SK someone else did, he might of only given that a 7 because it doesn't do anything new just what it does very well.

Hence it comes back to what see said in the news thread with finding someone you agree with with reviews etc.

mas wrote:

He didn't review SK someone else did, he might of only given that a 7 because it doesn't do anything new just what it does very well.

Hence it comes back to what see said in the news thread with finding someone you agree with with reviews etc.

I never said that he did review SK I was using that as an example of a new game with a retro art style that has new ideas added to the gameplay which this guy says is lacking in those JRPGs, as for finding someone you agree with as a reviewer? That is all well and good but this doesn't mean he's (the NL guy) wrong or bad at reviewing games it's just his opinion of it.

It just sounds like you're a bit miffed at his score because they were games you were looking forward to but if you still want them then why let some above average scores bug you?

As Jas says, it's important to looks past the scores at what they're using to justify their verdict, and make a decision on that, rather than just looking at the numbers.

Besides, AG didn't seem to be an incredibly polished game from what he said. Not a great example of the genre. In fact, in one of the key areas for JRPGs (the writing) it flopped dramatically. So I wouldn't say they "hate" old-school JRPGs based on that alone.

I still think you're just sore based on Pier Solar not getting 999/10 for being a Dreamcast game.

I did say it's his opinion and I never said he was wrong or right and if I see reviews of his in the future with a high score I know that it's quite likely a good game. But the point of the games are that meant to be oldschool JRPG's with old ideas & mechanics not new things, when I do play PS i'm going in thinking it's like phantasy star on the mega drive.

On AG yeah the writing is a issue but that's poor translation which JRPG's are known for, even other games like Ace Attorney recently.

And why you keep saying PS is a dremacast game it is on that system but it's a mega drive game, being on dreamcast has nothing to do with it as I'm never going to play that version of it. I'm going to play either the Wii U or PS4 version.

AA has always had decent writing, I find. DD was unfairly treated by many (Fronkhead ), probably because of Takumi's departure. It's certainly not something that's true for all JRPGs, but it's definitely true for my favourites.

As for PS, all Sega consoles look the same to me.

I don't what JRPGs been playing but I am thinking more 16bit era as these games seem to be around that and early PS1 type stuff.

Still if you want a JRPG on the Wii U they are your only options.

The shortage of good JRPGs on Nintendo consoles this generation is pretty galling.  I'm not necessarily expecting the Wii U to have lots (thinking about last gen., how many were there?  XC, TLS...), but the 3DS should have more than it does.  The DS was full of 'em. Then again, it's not like I've given Fantasy Life much of a chance.

Yeah 3DS doesn't have many off them, the Wii only had these according to Wiki and even the other two systems didn't have many last gen either.

I forgot Opoona? How could I forget Opoona?

Oh. Because it was almost entirely forgettable.

It's interesting that link starts with like the N64 & Cube before it not many RPGS, I can only think off one on the N64 that's Paper Mario and only about a dozen on Cube. It's strange that the genre as whole be it JRPG, TRPG, SRPG etc aren't represented better on Nintendo systems.

All the RPG's went to the DS. Overwhelmed with the things, it was. It seems that the RPG is not as popular as it once was, which is a shame, but turn-based gaming is not as immediate as other gaming options.

A bit of a dying genre in some ways which is probably due to most of them lacking any real innovation.

But then you see things like Ni Nu Kuni, Bravely Default and Pokemon all do very well sells wise, so people still want games of the genre.

And people went crazy for the 10 minute trailer for FFXV.

The_Jaster wrote:

A bit of a dying genre in some ways which is probably due to most of them lacking any real innovation.

And I don't necessarily think you're right that it's dying, Jas. Or at least, you shouldn't be, although there are undeniably fewer coming out that in the 3DS' heyday. The Japanese still go mad for these sort of games, which shows that there's a market out there - BD sold well for a supposedly niche title, and isn't the still-unreleased-in-the-West Youkai Watch a JRPG? That didn't do too badly...

I don't even think the genre necessarily needs to be bereft of innovation. Games like TWEWY last gen. show that there are still avenues to be explored. Even looking at the more traditional turn-based games, BD added some new twists to the JRPG formula (one of which was microtransactions, granted...).

Really, though, the JRPG doesn't need to innovate. What it needs is high production values, a big world, an interesting story, and not to forget why people still like them (FF that means you).

I'll admit that was a poor choice of words there but I can't agree that (J)rpg's don't have to innovate, you can't always grab everyone's attention with the story & production values etc but if one plays differently to the norm then you will.

Maybe this is just me but I've lost count of the rpg games where the worlds/stories interest me but they fall flat because the combat is the same old boring turn based affair.

(side note: cracking fifa goal gif btw)

A JRPG that is similar to the norm but well done isn't going to get you to buy it, Jas, but it might get me and other JRPG fans interested. BD still had turn-based combat, even if the combat was freshened up by the Brave/Default system, and did remarkably well. Why? Because it went back to basics. It didn't try and do over-the-top FFXIII-style scenery wankery and corridors: it went back to what had made the FF series great in the past, and did it with aplomb. (And then mucked things up in the second half. Details!)

to Balla post's

I guess the story alone just isn't enough for me I'd much rather have great gameplay moments that I create myself, I just don't see how that is possible with the old turn based mechanic & fair enough if certain jrpgs that do go back to basics and still sell (ewww salezzzz talk ) well but maybe the reason they aren't as plentiful as they were in previous years is that developers/designers have grown tired of making a similar game with a different story attached to it.

If they aren't trying to push the genre forward then what's the point?

So, what you're saying is that there's no point to SM3DW, which didn't try to push the platformer forward but rather refined existing mechanics; likewise with DKCTF; likewise with most Zeldas; likewise with almost every football game ever; and especially likewise with retro-esque games like that Cave Story malarkey that you love so much, that arguably move the genre back to a "better time".

"Moving the genre forward" is such a nebulous term.  I suspect what it really means in this case is "moving the genre in a direction I'd like to see".

As for what dwells in the mind of developers, I don't know, but the fact that there remains one TWEWY while CoD gets annual updates suggests that isn't foremost in their minds!  It is possible that the general public are bored with the genre, or that they believe that the general public are bored with the genre.  Certainly Capcom seemed surprised at BD's success.

And despite all this, I'm not saying that you're wrong in wanting to see the genre try new things, and I do prefer the battle systems of XC and TWEWY to those of the old FFs.  Just that there's room, or at least I hope there is, for a refinement of the old games as well - so long as they're good quality, and keep the key points that made FFIV, say, good.

Which was mostly good characters/plot, and here we are back at the problem with these "retro reversion RPGs". Although I don't mind seeing RPGs that stay where the genre is, I don't see the point in taking backwards steps when those backwards steps lead to things becoming worse.

You mean Square Balla not Capcom,

I agree with everything your saying myself

Yes I did. And even the last paragraph?

Well Pier Solar matches all the good points you bring up though.

Nintendo Life wrote:

From purely a story perspective, there's nothing here you really haven't seen before in a JRPG — it goes through all the motions of obligatory plot twists and utterly nonsensical betrayals and deaths. It's easily the worst part of the adventure, especially the lame dialogue by which the tale is delivered. Like a lot of RPGs, Pier Solar seems overeager in its attempts to make its characters likeable, leading to obnoxious exchanges like "How did you come up with Mazooca? Sounds like a rectal disease!" and the absolutely cringe-inducing repeated gag where Alina insists on calling her male companions "brothers" despite not being related. As a result, a lot of the dramatic moments come off as unintentionally hilarious and the supposedly humorous moments come off as irritating.

So in fact, the one point I made in that paragraph - the one point - PS does not actually have, according to a relatively unbiased source.