The BIG Console & Handheld Vote Thread! Top 22 Best and Worst are up.

Yeah that's a great post. Have to agree that the PS2 slim is a really cracking system. They fixed all those disc read errors and what have you and somehow made the console almost two dimensional. Absolute wizardry!

I gave mine away to a friend some time ago but I hear it's still going strong.

Man alive, GJones, there's a cracking level of effort put in there! Also please don't @ me with your talk of skin cells in the N64's controller hollow thanks.

The Cappuccino Kid wrote:

I don't think I've ever enjoyed reading a post on here as much as I did that one. 30/30 or 10/10.

Cheers Cappa! I always thought Dreamcast or N64 were my favourite growing up, but when I looked at them more objectively in retrospect, I think they are in correct positions. Not that it matters, it's just a bit of fun! I do miss that "15 years ago" PS2/DS era though. Console gaming was flourishing and handheld, perhaps moreso! It's still weird that there's no 3DS, and I still hold out hope Nintendo pops up in a Direct with "a new range of 3DS titles" and they stick all their GameCube stuff on there a la Luigi's Mansion. It would be simultaneously great and crap, but we'd buy them anyway.

That was such a fertile time for computer game creativity that I loved. It felt like we'd moved past graphics over graphics over graphics and saw some truly inspired and visionary stuff during that era. It felt like steps forward like the EyeToy, touchscreen controls and guitar-shaped controllers were happening every week. Fair enough, these days there's Virtual Reality, cloud gaming and on-demand gaming, but fuck that, "15 years ago" had the better games. 

I'll probably get round to doing another top ten in your style, gjones, with a focus on the system, controller and library. 

Personally games have come a long way and you can now have things like The Last of Us Part II which is of a different calibre and why I put the PS4 high due the library.

And I think we still get the creativity but it's no longer a THQ but an indie team that makes a game about a goose.

masofdas wrote:

And I think we still get the creativity but it's no longer a THQ but an indie team that makes a game about a goose.

I would agree with this at least. What this era feels like it really lacks is mid-budget games, or smaller/portable titles from bigger studios (like TWEWY): games that combine invention and the willingness to experiment with just a bit more clout.

I give that a read when I'm supposed to be working later on.

Balladeer wrote:

masofdas wrote:

And I think we still get the creativity but it's no longer a THQ but an indie team that makes a game about a goose.

I would agree with this at least.  What this era feels like it really lacks is mid-budget games, or smaller/portable titles from bigger studios (like TWEWY): games that combine invention and the willingness to experiment with just a bit more clout.

I will use my

masofdas wrote:

Guess that's where we differ Muss as I am going weigh this heavily on the games and I mean exclusives at the time, but I will take things like multiplayer, online and anything else the console has done into consideration. Like I pointed out about the One X maybe one of the best machines made but the games still sort of lack even though it's been my main console of choice since it launched, but I would have had the same experience playing something like Celeste on Xbox One, PC, PS4, Switch, Stadia, Mac.

Every Home Console Mas has owned ranked

1. GameCube. The little Cube that could with a library of games that rank amongst some of my favourites such as Wind Waker then other such as Double Dash, Melee, Twilight Princess, Resident Evil 4 and more along with local multiplayer being outstanding.

2. Dreamcast. I don't have 200+ games on it for new reason as there's quality amongst them with some like PSO the first time I went online on top of other neat things.

3. PlayStation. The console that really got me into gaming more so than the Mega Drive. Maybe that's down to being able to buy or rent more games, play and borrow from people more so then had it the past but certainly with its games be it Crash, Spyro, Metal Gear, Final Fantasy, Resident Evil, Tekken always going to rank the best for me.

4. Nintendo 64. I don't feel I give the N64 enough praise as back in the day didn't have mine long and the only times after that was as mates playing MK64 or Goldeneye. Just years later picking up a N64 after the Cube then I realized how good the games it had on it were.

5. PS4. Maybe some recently biased as we're still in this gen just the games on it are superb why so many are in my Top 25 of All-Time, along with it just being a good solid machine with my personal favourite controller.

6. Mega Drive (Including 32X and Mega CD). Where it all began for me and nostalgia does play a big part and why I still put it above

7. SNES. In 2020 looking back at the SNES it's so different to 1994 as I can play Earthbound, Final Fantasy VI, Chrono Trigger if I wish and I can understand why during the hey of the 16-Bit systems why people especially state side why this was the best option for some.

8. Xbox. I really like the OG Xbox as the exclusives where good and offered me something different to what I had on Cube with Halo, Forza, KOTOR, Fable, Otogi and the biggest of them all online play for even 3rd party games out of the box. The only downside was the Duke which got replaced with the S-Type which the Series X|S controller is still based on.

9. PS3. The PS3 is an odd beast but was the console that showed me games that could be art more so than any before it where before gameplay had been key where something like Journey emotions was the key instead. Also, it being HD, Blu-ray Player and the first thing I bought with my first proper paycheck made mine special before talking about MGS4, Uncharted, Last of Us

10. PS2. This may shock some of you as I've said my views on PS2 lots of times but that's really down to it being compared to DC, Cube or Xbox and often hearing GTA San Andreas is so great which is it but I played that on Xbox, it doesn't make the PS2 special. What makes the PS2 special is the DVD player, Metal Gear Solid 2 & 3, Shadow of the Colossus, ICO and only in the last few years I've realized how many great games I did play on PS2.

11. Wii U. Loved the gamepad idea and the games on it, that made Wii Unique.  

12. Xbox 360. The 360 might be getting the PS2 treatment here a bit from me and a tad like now with Xbox One, as you can look at my gamertag and it's where I played most of the 3rd party games of that gen as they ran better most of the time better than on PS3 but that was an option though. That I'm looking what it brought to the table and it was better online which got adapt by a wider audience and digital downloads along with good exclusives but don't think any part from Gears 2 really of that top tier quality.  

13. NES. Didn't get to post Cube, just it did so much for gaming and stuff like SMB3 is still close to a 10/10.

14. Wii. The motion controls really as they work well with Wii Sports and a few others but never really been my thing, just it did a lot for games and still have Skyward Sword & Last Story on it.

15. Saturn. Don't have a huge amount to say on the Saturn, just that it's gone a tad underappreciated over recent years but still a good console.

16. Switch (Not including Lite). I've said what I feel about the Switch many times and both Balla & Muss have highlighted stuff I have issues with and I think it's only got a few quality games and I don't care too much about its unique selling point.

17. Xbox One. This seems mean but I have to look at all 7 years of the Xbox One and a long time it was well the same as PS4 but everything slightly worse. That only in the last few years has it got going and had an identity which is the services it offers.

18. Master System. Didn't have when it was popular, and I've tried to go back just sooner be playing Sonic on Mega Drive then here.

19. Neo Geo CD. Great fighting games, umm yeah that's about it

20. Jaguar. I like the Jag in it's so bad it's good way also AVP banger

21. 3DO. Not had long just better than the next three already

22. Atari 2600. One of the first consoles ever that for history reasons is higher than the

23. CD-I. Pants

24. Intellivision. Had one game for it

Every Handheld Mas has owned ranked

1. 3DS (Including New). I'm not a big handheld person but feel I played the 3DS a lot and played some great games on it that I'm giving it the nod at number 1.

2. VITA. I love the VITA and it's so underrated like we're seeing this week the store going which means 1200+ games are now hard to get and amongst them is things like Persona 4 Golden. Ohh and the actual hardware being excellent.

3. Game Boy. Where it all began really and Pokémon alone puts it here.

4. PSP. Excellent library of games and at the time the novelty of watching films and playing handheld games on a big screen as well just with a cable.

5. DS (Including DSi). Didn't play much DS but what I did was fine.

6. Game Gear. Sonic on the go amazing

7. Switch Lite (Not incluidng other Switch). I might not be a big fan of the Switch as a console but the Lite especially this year with Animal Crossing going into 2021 which looks like exactly what I want from the system that I could see the Lite moving up.

8. GBA. It was fine

9. Neo Geo Pocket Color. Nifty little handheld

10. Game Boy Color. Can't really think of any standout games but has to be better then

11. SwanCrystal. Sort like the GBC but for the Swan range which gives it the edge over

12. WonderSwan Color. Hard to play not knowing Japanese

13. Pokémon Mini. Did what it said on the tin

14. Lynx. Only had one or two games

15. Virtual Boy. I kinda like the VB and a lot of the games I've played are good just the problem is the machine itself #remakewario

16. N-Gage. You've all seen it right?

17. game.com. It could go online and had a neat feature where you could insert two games

18. Evercade. Umm yeah bought and sold almost right away as lost enthusiasm due to the wait and Cappa's reviews didn't do anything to make me want to turn it on

Only other things would be stuff like Amiga 500 or Spectrum ZX+2 but I can't even remember which ones I've owned

Looking back at this, think I'd move the PS4 up to 3rd.
The Switch would certainly move thanks to last year and what has come out this year, maybe 12/13th.  
PS5 would now be added, but be near the bottom.
Series X also can go in, a bit tougher than the PS5 to rank as very similar to what late Xbox One was/is doing, yet that is also the Xbox point.

Feel harsh on the Evercade, yet what I said about it was true, still love the reviews from Cappa. Maybe could also put Quest 2, PSVR, Stadia in the lists somewhere as well.

Mas wrote:

5. DS (Including DSi). Didn't play much DS but what I did was fine.
8. GBA. It was fine
16. N-Gage. You've all seen it right?

The insight is brilliant

Could have put it played Pokemon.

It's the little details that make good posts great.

It's hard giving details of nearly 50 systems.

Oh man, I totally forgot about this thread.

Here's my new completely off the cuff, I've got some time to kill before this meeting, ranking.


0. PC

1. Wii - Loved the motion controls, the library, and will never forget the treasured memories this console gave me.

2. PS5 - It's quiet, super fast, and has a growing library of bangers. Yeah, there is a recency bias, but I can really tell the difference between it and the old guard.

3. Switch - The kit is still amazing, but I don't really look at it the same anymore. The pandemic has had a big impact on lowering it.

4. GameCube - A class act, with a good library, and a really good design - both for the controllers and the system.

5. PS2 - I have more nostalgia for this, but the machine isn't as good as the Cube. Still, an era chock full of games at affordable prices.

6. Series S - Like it's good and the GamePass is really convenient. But our controller is already knackered because it disconnects whenever its wired. If I had the Series X it'd probably be higher, but you can tell that some games aren't really made for the S.

7. Gameboy - A classic, indestructible machine

8. PS1 - Still remember thinking I'd blow it up if I put in disk 2 of FFIX to try and skip a hard bit of the game. Library probably isn't as good as the nostalgia.

9. PS4 - It's good. Lots of good games on it. But it's so much slower than the newer machines. Also my old one had this weird bug whereby it would crash whenever the controller disconnected. And my god the updates for games took forever.

10. DS - Beyond the Gameboy I fell off handheld gaming, but the DS was there for me with Pokemon and weird shit like WarioWare.

11. GBA - I had the SP. Real sleek, but I think I had fewer than a dozen GBA games.

12. 3DS - I got such little use out of it really

13. GB Colour - Colour

14. Wii U - Rufus Hound.

15. PS3 - It was alright, I like that the online was free. But in all reality, aside from its exclusives, I think it was definitely the worst major console of its generation.

Interesting list as PS5 being so high when PS4 in the middle seems crazy based on each system's library but does seem again with PS3 (It did have great tech but no one knew how to use it) so low that emphasis on the tech from the sounds of it with PS5 being fast and PS4 being slow in comparison.

Which I do get as I've got no idea where I'd place the Series X as over the ONE it is leaps & bounds better from a tech standpoint, but library is lacking on it.

For somebody so apathetic about the Switch, Muss, you've placed it awfully high up!

I still really like it, and I had it at number 1 last time. I'm just at a point in my life where I don't really use the Switch anymore, and I'd rather play third party games on the other machinery I have. I still like it more than the vast majority of consoles and I won't forget the feelings I had for it, even though the way I feel about it now isn't the same.

I did rank the PS5 quite highly, but it is a really good bit of kit. Great controllers and the loading times are amazing. It still looks absolutely hideous, but I've hidden it behind our TV so out of sight, out of mind and all that.

There is a recency bias for sure, but whereas I could feasibly see myself booting up a Gamecube or something old, it's always a hard sell with a previous gen console that's not a Nintendo machine. They're typically just worse versions of the new thing. At least with something like the Wii there's a real individual flair there.

I get that but when I look at PS5 only see Ratchet, Returnal compared to firing up the PS3 even with Last of Us, Uncharted, Journey etc

I think with the likes of PS5 and Series X/S though you could consider the library to include backwards compatibility and upgrades too because it's just so easy to do. Like many I would have spent a large amount of my time on PS5 playing PS4 games which makes the console all the better for it, I managed to play about 60 hours of Horizon Zero Dawn last year without feeling like I live next to an airport and that only makes me appreciate the PS5 more.

Yeah, I've felt zero need to boot up my ps4 since getting my ps5 so I get where Muss & Treesmurf are coming from. I should mention I went from base ps4 to 5 so that jump is bigger than most folk would've had.

I went from base PS4 (well, slim so I guess mine was quieter) to the PS5 too. I'm 100% on board with Smurf here, the backwards compatibility makes a huge difference.

Even if I was in love with all the games on PS3 games you listed Mas, I can play most of them on the PS5 anyway. Also I kind of don't feel like the PS3 is that retro, you know? I mean, it is retro. But it's fundamentally not any different to the PS5, except for being slower and with free online. On the other hand, the Wii is still very much the Wii. And while you can emulate any old PS2 game, there's a tactile chunkyness to the old machine with its multitabs, memory cards, and hell even the instructions manuals that came with old games.

The 360 and PS3 are the first of the computer-like consoles, with hard drives and streaming etc. Their analogue tactility decaying in the face of digital entropy. The cases smaller, manuals all but thank you messages, (if you bought any late Madden game, you literally have a one-sided sheet of paper with the controls written on it), and games increasingly reliant on external servers for their use, as opposed to the consumer owned hardware itself. It's the coming of generation rent, where the life of the good is defined increasingly by technology that isn't owned by the consumer, but instead guaranteed by the supplier for as long as the stakeholders determine.

Simultaneously it's a generation that saw EA declare war on pre-owed PC games, attempting to lock to specific keys while making their games as online reliant as possible. Sim City, that single-player game, became online only. Battle for Middle Earth 2 - I could never play it online because I had a pre-owned copy, and EA said I needed to buy a new version of the game.

I think that's why, for me personally, they don't really stand out. They're the old iterations of what we have today, emergent at a time that combined with the some predatory practices by companies. We had shite like the Skyrim Horse DLC, a precursor o microtransactions.

Of course, we have predatory practices today. Just look at Gran Turismo 7 and the debacle that's been that game since it reviewed - with their hiking of microtransaction prices to "reflect the real world value of the cars in the game." It too is an online only game, and it went cold for about a week while they fixed their servers. A fucking shit show. But as much as there is a great prevalence of those server games, there's been perhaps a renaissance in the platformer - the metroidvania - the tactics games, and experimental rogue-likes, with the continued rise of the indie games in a way that wasn't quite as developed back then. We've also got the law, finally, catching up with loot boxes, and plenty of games like Elden Ring which forgo shitty practices entirely.

And Elden Ring runs amazingly on the PS5. Remember how Bethesda games were basically always fucked on PS3

Like I said I totally get it where you are all coming from and I remember on SONM a thread like this which argument of Wii should be higher than it was as it plays GameCube games (GameCube higher on vote the list) and even PS3 was mentioned as could get one that plays PS1 and PS2 games.

Yet too me will always be the games that make a console special or not, look at my views on Switch for ages because of the Wii U ports or even PS2 when peeps go GTA San An great on it, yet to me that's also on OG and PC, SotC and Jak etc make PS2 decent.

I'm inclined to agree with Muss - console rankings will eventually include ecosystems and subscription services. You might not see a PS6, but just "PlayStation" and it has a subscription and PC-like hardware. It's a shame, because a big part of console history is the identity and memories those consoles provide. A bunch of my PS4 game time has been playing remasters or remakes, I haven't even touched the likes of Horizon, God of War or Uncharted 4. Am I even playing PS4? I'm just playing games.

Yeah that's the Xbox way already or plans to be, and yeah that's what I've said for years on something like a GTA San An that's a game to me.

Yet its the identity bit that's important to me, at least at the moment, especially when I look at Nintendo with a Wii for instance as Muss mentions.

Also very much a me thing having 50 odd system's, and why I've got a Jaguar well because of AvP etc, got to base them all on identity.

Hmmmm. Everybody's got their own ranking criteria, of course, but - well, my favourite pure handheld console is the DS. I don't prefer it over the 3DS because I prefer GBA games over 3DS games (I don't): I prefer it because I like the DS' library more than either of those other two. To me, even though I can and do play DS games on my 3DS, I associate the DS library with the DS. 90% of a console is its games for me, even with something like the Switch where it introduces something completely different to what came before. (Okay maybe 80% with the Switch.)

All of which to say is, I find it hard to see where Muss is coming from with his PS5 pick - in part at least. I get recency bias, I get good controllers, and I definitely agree that games are actually better than they were despite predatory nonsense. But I definitely don't the think the predatory nonsense side of things has gotten any better since the PS360 generation. Primarily though, playing great PS4 games on a PS5 would just make me think, 'Wow the PS4 had/has really good games!'

Anyway my top machine's the Switch now so I'm deep in recency bias territory, and part of that is only because I could never be bothered to buy and play indie games on Steam.