Random Gaming Thoughts II ~News Items Beware~

Animal Crossing helps girl through chemotherapy. Contains sad comics.

Balladeer wrote:

Animal Crossing helps girl through chemotherapy.  Contains sad comics.

That was both very sweet and equally sad.

My partner has found the same game gives her great pleasure in the relaxation it brings with her health. With numerous hospital visits, operations and recuperation, she has put over 1700 hours into it. It helps her relax when she is in pain and can't sleep, so I find myself waking up in the early hours of the morning with her playing it. Well, Animal Crossing and reading actual books.

I can imagine that it's great for that sort of thing. I never got into it (by which I mean, I got too much into it and tired quickly), but it's obviously been a force for good in your partner's case and this girl's.

I've just done a quick YouTube of some games we've not seen for a while

I just had two seagulls fighting outside my window (well, one had the other's beak in its beak, so it was either a fight or a really aggressive kiss), and the sounds they made were pretty much the sounds of the Kargorocs from Wind Waker.

Which made me really miss the aforementioned game, and then really want another Zelda. Such a shame about Zelda U's delay.

A couple of hours ago I lent the original Inazuma Eleven to my cousin. It's a one-save game, though, so that's my carefully-built team lost to history. And I'm really wanting it back at some point! Has anyone ever lost games when you've lent them to someone and the blackguard hasn't given 'em back?

Please say 'No'!

I still haven't had the Fire Emblem: Awakening I lent to a lass at work back yet, but she insists I will at some point.

I let a mate my copy of the Granstream Saga years ago and still not got back, I can easily go get it of him but never been bothered as I don't own a PS1.

Anyway a random thought which I brought up in the last game you finished thread about MKX which as you know is a fighter.

That genre used to be one of my favs as a kid everyone on the estate used to come round to play the mega drive then the PS1 even up to the cube thanks to SMASH but now you don't do that and the genre has lost something to me. MKX has a story mode which I found fun unless a fighter coming has some sort of story mode, I don't know if I can really bothered with them

A genre I wasn't keen on was RPG's, this might be age thing as I do remember renting FFVII & FFVIII and not liking but enjoying IX which I would 11 when that came out but even during the 5th gen wasn't a genre I touched but now I can't wait for a good RPG (It might be that you don't see main now part from western).

So have your thoughts on genres changed over the years.

I think I'd agree with you about fighters, mas. I do occasionally play Street Fighter IV, but the 1 on 1 fighter feels kind-of like... "immature maturity", in that kids appreciate the violence. Mortal Kombat X is just fucking stupid.
Smash Bros. is an exception, but that's because it doesn't play like a 1 on 1-er.
FPSes are also off my list, I think.

However (in a desperate attempt to make sure I'm not just becoming stuck in my ways) I used to get fed up with open-world sandbox type things (your GTAs and the like) as the story tended to get in the way. Now I'm much happier just having a bit of a laugh.

For me it's the socialness of fighters which they don't have now.

My local CEX has replaced their GameCube section with an anime section, and it's the most disgraceful move since Poland was annexed by Nazi Germany.

Just had a weird thought about Bloodstained, it's coming Mar 2017 the Wii U might of been replaced by then or being replaced in 2017.

That Bloodstained might be one if not the last titles on the consoles.

That leads me to another thought as you are aware that old system still get games, well devs are still going to likely have development Wii U's. So could we still maybe see like with Pier Solar on DC, some smaller studio continue making Wii U games and get them backed via Kickstarter etc the only issue would be online as how long after will it stay up and if that's not option then how hard is it to get those disc of Nintendo.

Don't start but NX is a handheld, it's just thought about 2017 being a long time away & things might happen.

Somebody famously described Senran Kagura Burst as "Rolf Harris-ey stuff [that] surely has no place in gaming as a whole". Well, SK2: Deep Crimson is out, and got a 6/10 from Nintendo Life. But the comments... Oh dear God, the comments. I don't know whether to laugh or cry!

My review is now up on Gintendo

Apparently we were getting a grimdark Kid Icarus game on the Wii at one point. Much though I would have loved 60fps flight combat, I'm very glad that we got KIU's tone rather than Factor 5's.

The tone of KIU is a massive part of its appeal, although it might have been fun to see a Nintendo character working for their redemption. :sidewaysthumb:

Yeah, the dialogue is one of the best part of KI: Uprising, and I think it'd be a lesser game without it.

Sounds like they made a big mistake trying to make it as dark as they did. They probably could have still done the redemption stuff while retaining the cheerful tone Nintendo have always had in mind for the franchise.

I was talking about the story in The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword with OR in the October releases thread (because of course), and it brought up something that I don't get: sacrificing gameplay for story.

I like lots of stories in games. Ghost Trick, the Phoenix Wrights, JRPGs. Stories. Love 'em. But these are genres where story is paramount. The Phoenix Wright games are visual novels; GT much the same, with a cute set of puzzles on the side. JRPGs, the traditional blend, separate story and gameplay into little compartments and have done since gaming year dot.

In the action genre, mind, you've got games like TLoU. A critically celebrated success, yet from what I hear, that's all about the story and characters, and the gameplay is middling. Your mileage may vary, but this certainly seems to be a popular, if not prevailing, opinion.

So you're sacrificing the thing the genre does best, in order to make it into an interactive film. Why is this being celebrated? Why don't people who want a film, watch a film? Or read a book? Or play a visual novel? Why is a story-driven action game with mediocre gameplay celebrated? That's what I don't get.

The usual answer I hear is, "Oh, you're so much more invested in the characters because you're controlling them." And I don't get this either. What difference does it make if I've made the character jump through a few hoops first? Regardless of medium, they're 2D characters on a screen (unless it's on the 3DS or Imax I suppose). I'm no more engaged with them than I am a character in a good film or book. Is the fact that I don't relate to a character I've been controlling more, just because I've been controlling them, emotionally stunted on my part?


(The LoZSS link is that one of OR's reasons for the lack of joined-up world was because of the story-driven nature of the game. Again, I see this as sacrificing a good gameplay aspect for a story-related one; again, I see this as Not A Good Thing.)

I've never been able to get why those types of games are so popular either. Give me a game with satisfying gameplay mechanics to exploit and mess around with with well designed levels over a linear wannabe B level movie hack job any day. Bonus points if it's not remotely realistic or it's super stylish.

I have played a couple and I can sort of get what people say when they say they "connect" more with the characters, but I feel that's down to how the cinematography is designed around shocking and exciting the player rather than anything special about the characters.

I'm a huge fan of story driven games, take Telltale's games the gameplay is not great, they can be buggy yet lot of there games have won numerous awards including GOTY.

And the reason why is because of the story is so good and you connect with them and in the case of TWD see how Clem goes from a shy little girl to tough as nails little girl (she's still like 12 at the end of season 2).

It's so well told that it shows gaming is more then mindless shooting things most people think, it shows gaming game be emotional as films, tv or any other medium.

My fav game of all time is the Mass Effect Trilogy which has great gameplay along with story well in till the ending.

I suppose it boils down to the fact that video gaming allows for a totally different style of storytelling when compared to film or literature. With those forms of media, the spectator or reader is entirely removed from the story. You're an observer being carried along for the ride created for you by the director or author. With video games, there's a connection to the story that simply could not exist in film or literature because in a way, the player is the narrator. Sure, the story still unravels as dictated by the game's writers, but due to the fact that you're controlling the protagonist of the story, it's much easier to forget that those writers exist. So yeah, I think it is down to "you'll feel more invested in the story because you're controlling the character", but that's the key point that makes the story of a video game different from the story of a movie.

A good example for me is Metal Gear Solid on PS1. If I'm honest, I was frustrated playing this due to the controls aging badly. I didn't enjoy the gameplay. But I was absolutely drawn into its story because of the way it was told, and that wouldn't have worked in any other medium. I moved Snake from area to area, I chose when to call up my support team on the codec for some back story nuggets, I had nothing on my memory card so Psycho Mantis couldn't banter about my Castlevania save file... all these reasons and more made it so easy to connect to Snake, the Colonel, Otacon and the gang, because I had control of the pacing of the story.

What cements MGS1's story being enhanced by the fact it's a video game in my mind is that when the story was retold through the written word in an optional (and very, very long) retelling available to read in MGS2, I couldn't connect to the characters in the same way. Being told "Snake lay in the snow, motionless, scanning the treeline for the briefest flash of platinum blonde hair. There she was - Sniper Wolf," is worlds apart from my tense sniper duel with her in-game. There's no tension there. There wouldn't be in a cutscene either. The fact I was in control of Snake's fate heightened the drama of that scene. And the funny thing was that even though I was grappling with the controls and struggling gameplay wise, I didn't care. I loved that part of the game because of its story.

The same could apply to The Last of Us too, I guess. You're in control of Joel, and it's your fault if he gets attacked by Clickers and has to waste nearly all his ammo taking them out and then spend the next twenty minutes desperately searching for pistol rounds, hoping and praying that you won't run into more enemies but you do and then you've got to fend them off with melee weapons and you're nearing death... none of that would have had half the emotional effect had it been in film or literature. That's what the interactive element affords storytelling in videogaming.

So yeah, plot in games is well good, innit.

Right. Right. Right.

Story is important in games. I think videogames are a very important storytelling medium. They can tell stories that can't be told in any other medium, make me feel things a film or book or any other media never could. Bioware's games put me into the characters' shoes, make me feel their loves and hates, heartbreaks and joys like nothing else. Games can also tell stories in ways that nothing else can, like Her Story.

However, I don't think "story should take precedence over gameplay". Nor do I think "gameplay should take precedence over story." The two are symbiotic, and that's correct. In Dark Souls the beauty is the way every different aspect is perfectly attuned. What you're doing, where you're doing it and who you're doing it with feeds into the worldbuilding perfectly. Every death to every monster, and every discovery made while exploring every area, is part of the grand tale it is weaving and this is what elevates the game to one of my all-time favourites. The opposite can also be true; Uncharted has never grabbed me because while Nathan Drake is presented as a lovable rogue in the Indiana Jones template, as soon as the gameplay kicks in I'm shooting hundreds and thousands of men to death so I can get some trinket before them.

Balladeer wrote:

In the action genre, mind, you've got games like TLoU.  A critically celebrated success, yet from what I hear, that's all about the story and characters, and the gameplay is middling.   Your mileage may vary, but this certainly seems to be a popular, if not prevailing, opinion.

 

The game has a few wonky stealth bits but otherwise, you're way off there mate. The Last of Us is so very excellent because the tension, the horror and the visceral unpleasantness of the violence is juxtaposed with the quiet exploration of a hauntingly beautiful post-apocalyptic world. This is all shown through gameplay and is very deliberate storytelling.

Balladeer wrote:

(The LoZSS link is that one of OR's reasons for the lack of joined-up world was because of the story-driven nature of the game.  Again, I see this as sacrificing a good gameplay aspect for a story-related one; again, I see this as Not A Good Thing.)

I have to just disagree entirely here. Skyward Sword never claims to have an open world, never pretends to and doesn't have to. I like a bit of exploration in a Zelda, and that's part of the reason I think neither Wii Zelda is the perfect game we were waiting for, but saying it "sacrifices gameplay for story" is reductive and silly. They made a decision based on their overall design. The game is still exquisite.

Balladeer wrote:

Is the fact that I don't relate to a character I've been controlling more, just because I've been controlling them, emotionally stunted on my part?

Well its not literally just "because I've been controlling them", that's deliberately oversimplifying it. Games that do it well use gameplay cleverly to tell their story

MGS3:

Dragon Age: Origins:

We've had the discussion about you not getting attached before, and I don't want to call you emotionally stunted, so I'll wrap up. Good gameplay can make up for a lack of story (Super Mario Galaxy) and a great story can make up for a lack of gameplay (Telltale Games), the best games mix the two well and bad games don't match.

And Skyward Sword is a beautiful angel with a great villain, a lovely Zelda and a noble Impa. Shut up.

I think the TLoU view comes from me and a lot of the internet now as Andy has brought up before it's now cool to hate on it with one of those things being the gameplay just being a lot like Uncharted which I personally love sue to the story & characters as yes the gameplay it kill loads of guys but that could be said about lots of things as well.

The stealth isn't wonky in TLoU, it's just easier to be careless and shoot most things, when you need it it works a treat, it's just that shooting your way through the game is an easy option for the everyman who wants to enjoy the story.

I also think that Telltale get a bad rap for their gameplay, sure QTEs aren't revolutionary or as challenging as other styles but a good action scene can be just as exciting as any other games combat.

I definitely think that being in control of the game is a massive thing for getting me more involved, no matter what I'm playing I'll always refer the the main character as me, or talk about the events as if it was something I did as opposed to the character. It takes something twice as good for other media to make me feel as much.