Super Non-Stop Debate

NO I THINK IT IS SHAMBOLIC AND MUST BE STOPPED, GAMES MAKERS ARE TRYING TO CUCKOLD US, THEIR PAYING CUSTOMERS, THE ONES WHO KEEP THEM EMPLOYED!!!!

Nah, it's fine as long as, like Balla said, it's clearly communicated and the game at launch is still worth having. I honestly can't think of a game that's been at fault in this issue, really.

Balladeer wrote:

My view is that as long as there's clear communication over what's being offered, the consumer can then choose happily enough and it is, indeed, win-win.  I'd say that the Splatoon games have communicated their 'games as service' aspect well, but Street Fighter V, for example, may not have.

There is, now I think about it, a caveat.  A game must release with its main one-player mode(s).  If it's a game that relies on multiplayer, it must also release with its main local and online multiplayer options.  Regardless of the best communication in the world, players will pick up the game expecting these features to be there.  If they're not, they may rightfully feel short-changed.

To pick an example: I would expect a Mario Kart game to release with Grand Prix, Time Trials, Local Multiplayer, and Online Multiplayer.  If however Nintendo wanted to add the Battle Mode, or Mission Mode (bring back Mission Mode!), at a later point, I wouldn't feel too short-changed because these are almost 'extra modes'.  Nobody buys a Mario Kart game for Battle Mode.  Nor would I mind retro tracks, say, being a later addition.  But they'd need to let me know about that well in advance, rather than in a size-five font 'Coming Soon!' on the box.


TL;DR: A game must release with the things people buy it for, and anything to be added later must be clearly communicated as such.

Somebody put this man in charge of one of them veedo gams marketing & communications roles.

Drunkalilly wrote:

NO I THINK IT IS SHAMBOLIC AND MUST BE STOPPED, GAMES MAKERS ARE TRYING TO CUCKOLD US, THEIR PAYING CUSTOMERS, THE ONES WHO KEEP THEM EMPLOYED!!!!

Nah, it's fine as long as, like Balla said, it's clearly communicated and the game at launch is still worth having. I honestly can't think of a game that's been at fault in this issue, really.

I think GT Sport is going to have a issue as I don't know if Joe Public will know it has basically no single player, which is even worse then SFV.

Muss wrote:

Somebody put this man in charge of one of them veedo gams marketing & communications roles.

I'd not last a day, my insistence on clarity and honesty would have me out on my ear quicker than you can say, 'Yes the whole Peach thing is quite sexist at this stage isn't it?'

With apologies to Zero, I am inspired:

The Switch is already, at this moment in time, the best party console.

It's going to have a hard time against the Wii in particular, I reckon. But here's the thing: in a group of people who don't care for sports, the Wii Sports games are a bit of a dud. The Switch, meanwhile, has the best version of Mario Kart (ignores Mas), Overcooked, and Jackbox 3. The latter in particular appeals to basically everyone, and supports more than four players simultaneously (as does MK8D if you have 2+ Switches). Add in the Switch's portability, in the case of outdoor events (see the infamous Karen advert), and I do reckon the Switch is the best party console there is.

That's before any Mii games, and Smash, and Mario Party come along - but I say that, with those three games (and arguably Snipperclips) alone, and helped by the aura of 'the new', there's no machine I'd rather bring to a mate's party, or have at my own.

Although I have to cede the point to m'learned friend, my Number One pre-Switch party console was the GameCube. Double Dash!! and Mario Party Whichever One It Was caused much amusement and merriment at the parties I was at in my early twenties. :old:

The Wii will always be my definitive party console, but that is due to getting so much mileage out of Wii Sports and the like. I'd disagree about non-sporty folks being nonplussed about Wii Sports, most of the people I played with didn't follow any sports but that didn't stop us getting all aboard the hype train when an all-star assortment of Miis were assigned to a baseball team! - and being devastated about letting them down.
Another big factor is age, the Wii launching around during my teen years meant there was always a decent group of folks ready to turn literally anything into a party game - #Resi4Nurse

If I was that age today then the Switch would be the party platform. Doesn't stop me admitting it is off to a heck of a start and I've managed to get more out of 1-2 Switch than most reviews would have one think possible.

Being able to take the Switch to a party easily, and having Jackbox on there, does make it a hell of a party console. That said, Wii Sports was something people came to me wanting to play, I didn't have to show up and convince them. Plus, as Muss said, the Wii came out when I was 16 and I spent some great years playing party games every damn day.

I would possibly still say Wii due to what others have said about Wii Sports, I think their is a a difference between party console and multiplayer console. I think something like a Wii Sports appeals more to a casual audience, have some drinks and swing around a Wiimote.

Sure some of the Switch games you bring Balla do feel partyish but I think they take a bit more explaining to someone then a Wii Sports.

A little too post-uni for my Wii to be a truly party console for me, though my best two university friends used to come over and play it occasionally. I remember one time where we had a round of Wii Sports bowling... and then went actual bowling. We were much better with Wii Remotes, let me tell you! Anyway, I was going to say that I used to bring my Wii to my Mum and Dad's for Christmas, which resulted in lots of parties... for my brothers' mates! I found Miis on there of people I'd never met a couple of times.

I can't argue with age and the mates we all had at the time! (Although mine still didn't seem that fussed by Wii Sports, they were more of a Mario Kart lot. ) That's why the words 'at this moment in time' are in the motion. Would you still bring Wii Sports to a party now? I think it's impressive that this early on, even with 'newness' impact, the Switch can rival/beat established machines at partyness with its current library. And I even forgot 12S!

Even more controversial claim: among the non-current machines, I'd say that the Wii U even beats the Wii. A version of Wii Sports of its own, a better Mario Kart and Smash, and Game & Wario. An art game is one party thing I really wish the Switch had (TKO doesn't count).

As for intuitiveness, everybody has smartphones. And Jackbox takes you through the instructions, and then everybody's cracking up. I'd say it's a slightly greater setup for a significantly greater payoff, now at least.

Balladeer wrote:

But here's the thing: in a group of people who don't care for sports, the Wii Sports games are a bit of a dud.

Nut. That wasn't a barrier to accessing Wii Sports' playability at all. How many folk enjoyed Wii Sports Baseball, Wii Sports Boxing or Wii Sports Golf that don't give a toss about real Baseball, real Boxing or real Golf? Tens of millions of folk, I'd confidently say.

~

Switch is off to a good start, but it's not got the variety of choice to be thought of as the best party console. It's not in the same conversation as the N64, GameCube or Wii, or any of the PlayStations. Don't know about XBox, but they'd probably be all right too.

I gather this debate has come from your party Balla? And reading about it sounds like most who went if they don't play games, would have a idea about them which does make the Switch decent.

Which really the answer is the party goers my Nan would prefer the Wii as she would get Tennis or Bowling but me and my mates back in the day would have preferred Halo on OG Xbox.

Ah, well, if it's 'at this moment in time', then the Wii is still valid, as it's a console that you can use at this moment in time (plus it has a full compliment of wonderful party-centric games; the Switch isn't even six months old yet

DIGRESSION ALERT: Mistyped that 'yet' as 'tet' on my phone, which came up with the suggestions 'Tetris' and 'Tethina' (my character in Ever Oasis and the MH Stories demo).

, even though it is quite a precocious child).

It totally does count.  I just don't think it's quite as good, especially not now, when it's a bit old hat and everyone who's wanted to play Wii Sports already has.

The Cappuccino Kid wrote:

Nut. That wasn't a barrier to accessing Wii Sports' playability at all. How many folk enjoyed Wii Sports Baseball, Wii Sports Boxing or Wii Sports Golf that don't give a toss about real Baseball, real Boxing or real Golf? Tens of millions of folk, I'd confidently say.

Many did, I don't deny this.  I'd also say that many didn't.  I can go only on my small sample size, but I've had trouble getting even people who are into games to play Wii Sports, who would have no problem picking up Mario Kart say.  Maybe these are the more sedentary people who'd be happier with a controller than dancing around the living room.  That's still a lot of people who'd rather not waggle.

I think the Switch has the necessary variety.  It's got a small number of games, but those games are ideal for parties.  Maybe if you kept bringing it to the same parties with those games, people would get bored quicker than e.g. the Wii.  

The N64, though?  I don't buy that going over well today, not with any but the most specialised of audiences.  The games are old and look horrid.  You introduce that to a bunch of people who don't game and they'd claw their eyes out.

Who's this "right people"?!

I didn't play that art game, so I wouldn't know. Looks like it's just Pictionary though. Pictionary is class, but is it any reason to get such a boner over Game & Wario?

Perhaps poor word choice on my part.  But if, say, I'd tried to get my mates to play Wii Sports, they'd be 'the wrong people' for that.  They just wouldn't be fun to play with.

It was the combination of Pictionary and Miiverse, I felt.  And the presentation.  And possibly also the fact that I'd not played a lot of other Pictionary?  Regarding the more general package, Islands was also a heck of a lot of fun.  Fair enough, though, most of the rest wasn't: I never unlocked all the games in one-player.  But those two alone make it a good contribution to a party games line-up.

Truth is, I never, ever played Wii U in local multiplayer - not once. I never felt urged to take it to any parties or anything like that, or boot it up when I had folk round. I just didn't think it had enough going for it, and the ten million control scheme were mostly a pain in the arse to deal with. Besides, if I took the Wii U to pre-drinks in just about any social circle I've got, I'd probably get set about.

This is the first I'm ever hearing about people not liking Wii Sports though.

'Nobody' definitely counts under 'the wrong people'.

The Cappuccino Kid wrote:

Truth is, I never, ever played Wii U in local multiplayer - not once. I never felt urged to take it to any parties or anything like that, or boot it up when I had folk round. I just didn't think it had enough going for it, and the ten million control scheme were mostly a pain in the arse to deal with. Besides, if I took the Wii U to pre-drinks in just about any social circle I've got, I'd probably get set about.

Maaaaaaaaan!

For me the Wii U was an incredible party machine! Islands and Artist on Game and Wario were both regular fixtures, and even Nintendoland had a few games that got some good sessions. Mario Kart 8 was played for an obscene amount of multiplayer in my flat, and Spin the Bottle: Bumpie's Party is one of the greatest party games of all time.

On top of that, the Wii U was perfect for youtube, be that playing something funny or for music. It was so easy to search for stuff and queue it up while something else played. Majestic!

Drunkalilly wrote:

Maaaaaaaaan!

For me the Wii U was an incredible party machine! Islands and Artist on Game and Wario were both regular fixtures, and even Nintendoland had a few games that got some good sessions. Mario Kart 8 was played for an obscene amount of multiplayer in my flat, and Spin the Bottle: Bumpie's Party is one of the greatest party games of all time.

On top of that, the Wii U was perfect for youtube, be that playing something funny or for music. It was so easy to search for stuff and queue it up while something else played. Majestic!

Maaaaaaaaate!

I missed out on a lot of what made the Wii U decent. As well as the ones you'd listed there, I regret that I wasn't able to get the best out of Splatoon and Super Mario 3D World, or indeed anything at all out of Nintendo Land, Bumpie's Party and Wii Party U. Maybe that's why I've got such different memories of the Wii U than a lot of other folk - I can't reminisce about multiplayer sessions on Smash 4 and Mario Kart 8 like youse can.

*gentle kick to the bottom*

This house believes that Henry Cavill is a terrible Clark Kent.

Clark Kent is, in my eyes, supposed to be a bit of a bumbler. A competent reporter, for sure, but generally a mild and unassuming character. Cavill's Kent - so far - has been forthright and argumentative... mostly with his boss, of all people, but also with Bruce Wayne. Perhaps Christopher Reeve's Kent looms too large in the memory but I feel the distinction between Superman and the Clark Kent persona need to be wider in Cavill's interpretation.

I've not seen Justice League, but based on MoS and BvS, I have to agree. Its a shame, as I think he's a pretty bloody good Superman. Like you say, Reeves' looms over the situation but there's good reason for that. Look at this scene. It looks like a transformation between two different people, all because of Reeves' acting. He made you believe people could look at Clark and think he wasn't Superman, not because of his glasses but his persona. I just don't believe it with Cavill, though he isn't nearly as bad as Dean Cain whose Kent was even cockier than supes, and famous to boot.

Tyler Hoechlin in Supergirl is really good though.

I thought you were going to show how he does this subtle little posture change between being Clark & Superman.

Spoiler:

Yes! That clip shows it even better.