Movies 2: Electric Boogaloo

Ha!  Your meme is useless against me!  I activate my trap card: Lack of Useless Knowledge!  It allows me to bypass whatever barbs your meme has and replace them with several of my own!

Also 2019 was a s*** year for movies and the only people that liked it lack the brain capacity for critical thinking and analysis. I would say "change my mind", but that would require others to have the actual ability to formulate arguments and articulate themselves.

Bit much.

I don't know about Joker, and ain't fussed about it either way. I'm just guessing that if the podcast is making fun of Joker fans, it means white supremacist asshats.

When you get called whatever "ist's" User Who Shall Not Be Named threw out because I dared to say a movie is garbage and provide extensive reasoning why, deal with constant passive-aggressive snipes, and have further attempts to reach some sort of understanding (for what is communication for besides understanding others) then maybe you can decide whether what I said is too much.  

As for me, I frankly do not give a shit any more.  People want brevity?  People don't want reasoning?  People either incapable or unwilling to have an actual discourse?  Fine.  You get me being a snarky asshole.  I'm done moderating myself and holding myself to values.  

Fucking hell I'm still explaining myself.  Pities sake.  No, screw it.  If my lack of tact upsets others then whatever.  Deal with it.

As for Joker I have quite literally never seen the mythical white supremacists that used or were expected to use the movie as a rallying cry.  Given the media's proclivity for acting as if white supremacy is all around us coupled with how little evidence I've seen to back up these claims I'm left to draw the only conclusion given the evidence.  That it's the typical autistic screeching from the media.  Certainly not the first time in recent times a myth was created to propagate a witch-hunt.

Actually, to hell with it.  Might as well commit account suicide and end this.  New year, new decade, perfect time for starting afresh.  Do you know why I keep banging on about how shit the new Star Wars is?

It's simple.  What was once a fun, whimsical story of good defeating evil has become a story about the rise and fall of a psychopathic mass-murderer, and his son creating the next psychopathic mass-murderer before dying a pathetic coward.  His daughter going on to slave her life away, have all her work reduced to ash, and then dying, like her brother, as a complete and absolute failure.  

That is what the "Skywalker Saga" has become.  The story of a family of failures who achieve nothing and die pathetically while someone else comes in to clean up the mess.  And it gets even worse considering who Rey actually is.  

If you cannot see why that is fucking horrendous writing on every level, disrespectful of both the original work and everyone that likes them, and why this would make fans like myself actively angry, then, yes.  I stand by my earlier remarks.  You're either stupid or don't give a shit about Star Wars.  Or both.  

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There.  Much better.  Fuck tip-toeing around for the sake of manners and still being ridiculed and insulted.  Looking back the amount of times I've held my tongue, constantly moderated myself to avoid offending others, what was even the point?  This is something that has been growing for the better part of a decade.  And I am beyond through playing nice for the sake of trying to fit in in a place where I never will.  

Lets be real, I certainly won't be missed.  If you can't be yourself and be accepted then the "bonds" between you and others were worthless to begin with.  Never fit in, never accepted, never invited.  Just the unwelcome tagalong from Australia disrupting the circle-jerk.  

Well this tagalong is doing what I'm sure you all want.  This is me fucking off for the last time.  For this is my New Years Resolution: Leave and never return.  "Let the past die.  Kill it if you have to."  So this is me, incinerating the last remnants of the bridge and moving on.  Fare well.

It's only a film mate










EDIT: My actual feelings about Star Wars: I don't think I disagree. It used to be a fun trilogy of movies about some cool things in space, where there were goodies and baddies and stuff. But the prequels were a bit of a mess (that's always the case when you know how they are going to end) and they probably shouldn't have brought it back as they thought they should be a bit serious. Oh well; like the subsequent series of Red Dwarf after VI, just accept them as an overreaching misstep, and take the original things as a separate Venn Diagram.

It's always sad to see forumites leaving, but I think given the way Athrun's thinking it's probably the right course of action in this case. Hopefully he'll clear his head, realise 'it's only a film mate', and come back at some point.

Anyway! Plan is for me to see The Rise of Skywalker on Saturday. I'll let you know my thoughts...

I saw it. It was good fun! I'm nowhere near as invested in the series as some, so I just liked the action and the Porg cameo and left The Lady to pick up the plotholes. Rey is a bit of a Mary Sue but she's not much worse than the heroes of the original trilogy, looking back on it. Star Wars is a big dumb space opera series and it finished with a big dumb space opera ending: I watched it with a bottle of wine and enjoyed it, so I'm fairly sure I was doing it right.

You mean you don't think it's a deliberate attack on the originals??? Are you mad!?

Nah I enjoyed it too. It got silly, possibly sillier than any star wars film to date, and aspects of it were bad. If the new trilogy has any faults its that they're too loyal to the prequel source material imo. That and it got bogged down in jedi sith shit by the end, which is always the worst thing about star wars this side of the trade federation.

Didn't like the final line, or the kiss, but I still enjoyed watching it. It'd be like a 2.5 star (of 5) for me. Bit of a disappointment but I had a nice day out with the lady.

I don't think the originals were the second coming of Christ, having only watched IV near the time - maybe that's my 'problem'. But yep, in the end it's a nice evening out. Isn't that what matters?

What matters is that Kellie Marie Tran was harrassed off the internet by misogynists and racists and this film tacitly validated them.

What matters is that the previous film made actual brave statements - your lineage isn't important and anyone can be special / the military industrial complex is the real enemy and average people need to rise up because all war is bad - and this film cowardishly backtracked on those because the director is a hollywood stooge who only has his job from his parents and knows who keeps the film industry funded.

The sword fights were fun, there was some very cheap fanservice . . . But is that what "matters"?

Not going to say I agree with Athrun, someone already was dismissing some of the upcoming MCU films because heaven forbid a woman plays Thor.

But The Last Jedi was crap and this sequel trilogy hasn't been great. Doesn't mean I'm not going to see Knives Out, because it's Rian Johnson, as that looks good.

masofdas wrote:

The Last Jedi was crap

This is your worst opinion yet.

Drunkalilly wrote:

What matters is that Kellie Marie Tran was harrassed off the internet by misogynists and racists and this film tacitly validated them.

Yes, she had under 2 minutes of screen time in the cinematic cut. Disgraceful. Unless, of course, the actress didn't want much of a part? I have no idea if she did or not, but I imagine she did want a proper role.

It was definitely the worst out of all the new ones and had by far the worst plotting/direction.

Jimbob wrote:

But the prequels were a bit of a mess (that's always the case when you know how they are going to end)

Not at all, there are loads of great prequels out there, and otherwise stories where you know how it will end before you get there.

Muss wrote:

Drunkalilly wrote:

What matters is that Kellie Marie Tran was harrassed off the internet by misogynists and racists and this film tacitly validated them.

Yes, she had under 2 minutes of screen time in the cinematic cut. Disgraceful. Unless, of course, the actress didn't want much of a part? I have no idea if she did or not, but I imagine she did want a proper role.

It was definitely the worst out of all the new ones and had by far the worst plotting/direction.

Argh, called out! Yep that is definitely not good and definitely matters. It didn't impact my enjoyment of the film, but it probably should have done.

Drunkalilly wrote:

What matters is that the previous film made actual brave statements - your lineage isn't important and anyone can be special / the military industrial complex is the real enemy and average people need to rise up because all war is bad - and this film cowardishly backtracked on those because the director is a hollywood stooge who only has his job from his parents and knows who keeps the film industry funded.

This, on the other hand, not so much. I didn't get those statements from the previous film, possibly because I wasn't looking for them, probably because I don't expect Hollywood to hold itself to that sort of standard; so the take-back (apart from the very galling 'actually your parents do matter' bit) didn't hit me.

I watched Us a few nights back. It was alright, but it couldn't hold a candle to Get Out in my book. The second half of the movie was a bit of a mess and I didn't feel the film came together in the same way that Get Out did.

I just got back from watching Jojo Rabbit. It's really fucking good. It was very funny in places, naturally, but it also made me feel a lot more. It smartly avoided the Thor Ragnarok problem of undercutting its dramatic moments with incessant jokes.

I want to go do humanitarian work
Or punch Nazis
Our both

I was just passing through to turn off email notifications, must say I'm surprised I wasn't banned to be perfectly honest.  While I'm here I'm going to set a few things straight.  Don't worry, the beast is caged and I'll be civil.  Irritable, but civil.  

masofdas wrote:

Not going to say I agree with Athrun, someone  already was dismissing some of the upcoming MCU films because heaven forbid a woman plays Thor.

But The Last Jedi was crap and this sequel trilogy hasn't been great. Doesn't mean I'm not going to see Knives Out, because it's Rian Johnson, as that looks good.

Look, if you think that's the reason then you misunderstand the point I was making.  This is the second time I've been falsely accused of being sexist (and believe me that's something I'll be debunking good and proper in the second half of my post).  

Firstly, Portman simply does not fit the role, nor was she even that good in prior Thor movies.  So when phase 4 of the MCU makes a huge deal out of "raw raw female Thor, we're so progressive!" I immediately think "oh goodie, the MCU is following every other hack trend and is going to be putting emphasis on trite pandering rather than good storytelling and action, can't wait! /sarcasm"  (And do remember that I'm also thoroughly burned out of superhero movies after Endgame, so that's playing a role in my statement as well)

I've also always found the trend of taking superheroes and removing the original hero to put in a "diverse" character that is either race or gender swapped to be honestly rather insulting.  It's akin to saying "you're diverse, which means you can't be a star on your own, so here, we'll give you this legacy built by the white straight male character and get people in through brand recognition rather than your own talent!" (a notion that Black Panther should have put to sleep, make a good product and the people will come.)  

As I said before, the movie could easily ditch the Thor brand entirely and be solely about Valkyrie kicking ass and not only would I not be critical, I'd, shocker, be genuinely interested.  But when you try to sell something not on its merits and concept, but on social-political ideology I immediately suspect the quality of the product will be compromised because the creative priorities are not in the right place.  A notion I can support with a large list of properties that have done exactly that.  

Let me make something clear.  I would qualify as a "minority" since I'm autistic.  Do you think I like it when you have movies bring in a autistic character and act all "it's the next stage of evolution!"?  No.  I feel insulted, patronised, and angry.  The condition being put on display like a circus act to draw people in, all while they pretend like it's some sort of "gift" (and oh I do so despise the term "gifted".  Ugh.  Crippling social phobia, chronic depression, and a ton of other life-altering problems.  What a gift).  It's demeaning.  

If you wonder why I'm so intensely critical of modern entertainment it's because rather than focusing on solid writing and performance, movies nowadays instead use "diversity" as a crutch for their utter mediocrity.  All while patting themselves on the back while acting as if female action leads are some sort of extraordinary new concept.  

TLDR: Tokenism sucks and a ton of Hollywood uses it as a crutch to deflect criticism over their crappy movies and characters.  Criticising movies nowadays gets you labelled any number of "ists", as a certain poster a few months ago demonstrated.  

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About sexism.  If I get irritable about this it's because, and this really shouldn't need clarifying, I'm not sexist.  In fact I like strong female protagonists.  One of my favourite fantasy trilogies is centred around a family of women in a male-run society whose traditions are being eroded by its neighbouring countries whose customs treat women far far worse than they do.  I could give a damn long list of awesome female characters in fiction, and in fact on a ratio of characters I like female characters outnumber the male characters.  

If I harshly criticise a female protagonist in a blockbuster movie it's not coming from a place of sexism.  It's coming from a place of wishing the writing wasn't so fucking awful and the characters were actually genuinely strong individuals with strong personalities.  

I mean look at Captain Marvel.  What, pray tell, is empowering about her?  She's a god-like entity that can do whatever she wants, doesn't have any true adversity to overcome, and has the personality of a plank of wood.  

Is it not far more inspiring to see a character go through genuine trials and tribulations, overcoming both their own flaws and the adversity of their world?  

Certainly I found Althea's story in the Liveship Traders trilogy of trying to find independent living in a male society far more inspiring (and at times absolutely heart-breaking) to read than watching some male hero like Captain America.  And illuminating too, the scene where, after working on a ship for months in disguise, proving herself to be highly skilled and one of the best skinners they'd ever seen, only to be denied her writ of recommendation by the captain at the end because a woman dared to work on a ship was fantastic, realistic, and eye-opening.  

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Lastly on the subject of "it's just a movie".  This will probably come as a shock to people but I'm not a super hardcore Star Wars fan.  I grew up with it, it is a special part of my youth and was a franchise that, between the OT and the Legends EU I returned to over the years like an old friend.  

My anger at the Disney era stems partly from what they have done to it, and partly because a very large swath of the franchises I followed, loved, and would return to every few years are being hijacked by modern bullshit and are systematically being destroyed because the writting quality has been thrown out the window and then shat on.  

Star Wars is the most prolific of the franchises, but my anger towards it is only as extreme because it's essentially the collective anger of multiple franchises being vented (looking at you Doctor Who.  RIP).  

There, done, off to play Xenoblade 2, bye.

P.S. Pyra's a boring plank of wood doormat "waifu", thank god Nia exists.

Athrun888 wrote:

Let me make something clear.  I would qualify as a "minority" since I'm autistic.  Do you think I like it when you have movies bring in a autistic character and act all "it's the next stage of evolution!"?  No.  I feel insulted, patronised, and angry.  The condition being put on display like a circus act to draw people in, all while they pretend like it's some sort of "gift" (and oh I do so despise the term "gifted".  Ugh.  Crippling social phobia, chronic depression, and a ton of other life-altering problems.  What a gift).  It's demeaning.

Ah, now that I can totally understand. People in wheelchairs get this a lot when the Paralympics rolls around*. A slight tangent, but I saw a comic written by a Muslim woman, where another woman was asking her if she'd describe herself as an innovator, or an influencer, or etc. - the implication being that, if she's not an empowered 21st Century woman in a hijab, then the alternative is that she must be being oppressed. The option of simply existing as a human being wasn't considered. And on tokenism, I worry about e.g. the BBC insisting that 1 woman should be on every panel show, because it leads to an assumption that they're only there to fill a quota, as opposed to being on their own merit.

I just don't know if I'd hold Star Wars up as the main cultural touchstone; it's a bit of fun that got out of hand. The main characters' surname is "Skywalker", and there's a big hairy monster whose name is a pun of Chewing Tobacco; he gurgles and everyone else speaks English.

*I left this edit in, but I probably shouldn't have written "rolls"

Ah, we never ban anyone around here (except for seven seconds). Somebody with 'chronic depression, and a ton of other life-altering problems' would get a bit more of a free pass from me in any case. (Who calls autism a 'gift'? Don't get me wrong, there are some incredible people with autism, but the majority of people I know who have it don't exactly enjoy it. )

Anyway, that was a good post. It was clear, concise, and explained some things for me that I didn't appreciate before. I can understand your qualms a bit more when they're put in the light of a whole bunch of things, rather than just Star Wars (about which I agree with Jimbob), and I can also appreciate the tokenism thing which I'm not really in a position to comment on much. I don't do film nostalgia really, so I guess my stance is I find it hard to tell if writing and entertainment quality have actually taken a nosedive, or whether there was always good stuff and bad stuff and good franchises getting worse, and there just wasn't any representation back then. Doctor Who has definitely got worse though.

Athrun888 wrote:

P.S. Pyra's a boring plank of wood doormat "waifu", thank god Nia exists.  

This is completely correct.

Jordan Peele doing a new Candyman is so god damn perfect and I can't wait to see it.

Here's the trailer:

Watched Alita last night which was okay, the biggest thing with it is that builds up to something happening then it just ends.

Then tonight watched Once Upon Time in Hollywood which was really good.

Watched Captain Marvel last night. Verdict? You know how the MCU is like the hamburger shop of cinema? Captain Marvel was like being given the buns. Just the buns, not condiments or meat or toppings. Just a piece of bread.

I know a lot of people say it was average. I actually think it was pretty bad. It's just this substance-less film with extremely bad CGI, poor action, miserable cardboard characters, and a plot that doesn't even make sense.

There we go, a TLDR Review for people. It's depressing that this is held up as some sort of landmark moment for women.

masofdas wrote:

Watched Alita last night which was okay, the biggest thing with it is that builds up to something happening then it just ends.

Finally a Hollywood anime adaptation that's faithful to the medium!

Might actually watch Alita tonight as a followup. Seems fitting to wash Captain Marvel down with its rival film.

I agree unfortunately, Captain Marvel isn't good. It's passably entertaining because they have that formula nailed now but that's it