Wrestling Discussion Thread

Up watching a TNA PPV whilst studying... they just used Mass Effect 3 music for a video package.   

JayMoyles wrote:

It does now. It's the second highest singles belt in the company, and they've spent the past few weeks raising it up with a tourney full of upper midcard guys. Last year it was the third-tier title, so Wade holding it then didn't mean much. It was like the European Championship of the Attitude Era, or Dean Ambrose's permanent prop the US title.

OK, it's the second highest singles belt in the company, yet just by default.

I can't share your sentiment with the rest of that, though. It's being fought for by 'upper midcard guys' as it can be seen that they're contributing to no other consequential part of the show. Look at who was in that tournament: nearly all of them were shoehorned onto WrestleMania in a big battle royal, even the champion. With the arguable exception of the winner, right now do any of those other twenty-nine guys really matter to the WWE product in the grand scheme of things? Again, excluding Cesaro, it was a mix of enhancement talent, good hands and guys who have had their day. It's the guys on the WrestleMania poster (like Hogan, Triple H, Undertaker and Cena) that really mattered, that were the real stars of the WWE show.

How often does a match really matter in WWE? How often does a bout exude that special sort of aura that's only witnessed in wrestling when over wrestlers compete for the first time, or the oucome genuinely seems up in the air, or is fought over a meaningful championship or rivalry? I think we've been lucky with four already this year (Undertaker/Lesnar, Daniel Bryan/Batista/Orton, Bryan/Triple H and the first Wyatts/Shield match), but I wouldn't say any more than that.

The Cappuccino Kid wrote:

It's the guys on the WrestleMania poster (like Hogan, Triple H, Undertaker and Cena) that really mattered, that were the real stars of the WWE show.

Guys like that don't just pop up overnight - it takes time to build them up as credible threats and credible stars. Likewise, a belt doesn't mean something until it's been built up as something to truly be sought after. The tournament is a solid way of accomplishing both. I think passing off the guys in that tournament as enhancement talent is unfair. Think about some former IC champs when it was the second top-tier built by default - Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, Kevin Nash, The Rock, Triple H, Steve Austin... I could go on, but would you have passed off those guys when they were gunning for the IC championship?

I'm not saying that it's a certainty guys like Cesaro, Ziggler, Barrett etc. will reach the top of the pile. I'm saying that in order for them to do so, it's going to take time.

That's just how they've been presented to me as a customer by the WWE. WWE has stop-started so many pushes that I'm feeling so much of the roster is beyond the point of credibly being rebuilt, and very much been typecast as mid card filler. For every time Dolph Ziggler beats John Cena in a TLC match, he loses to an Alexander Rusev five times. Everybody just trades wins and loses in WWE, and it means bugger all to me.

That list of former champions you've complied is of holders from over fifteen years ago. Though the IC title has been involved in several entertaining feuds/segments this millennium, I wouldn't say it's been an instrumental part of anybody's upward mobility through the card since The Rock in 1998. I'm not buying, say, Cody Rhodes as a credible holder of prestigious belt solely because he mentions Shawn Michaels or Ricky Steamboat enough times, before inevitably losing to The Big Show, or someone. Nobody has advanced because they've been Intercontinental Champion in years.

I think it's an ornament, and a belt for jobbers. I wouldn't kick up if they awarded it to Damien Sandow or Jinder Mahal - it would mean about the same as it does to me these days.

The Cappuccino Kid wrote:

I think it's an ornament, and a belt for jobbers.

See, I wholly disagree there. It might have been a few years ago, but I have the impression that these days it is being repositioned as a championship for those with a possible world championship in their future. If a Jinder Mahal won the belt, I'd be really shocked. Barrett, Cesaro, any of the Shield - those that are certainly on the rise... these are the types I'd expect to see holding the championship. I'm trying to be optimistic, because the lack of a properly structured midcard has hurt WWE in recent times, and I think they are rectifying that.

I unfortunately see it the other way: of those in the tournament, RVD, Sheamus, Alberto Del Rio, Mark Henry, Dolph Ziggler and Jack Swagger are guys with the world championship in their past. Same goes for a bunch of folk hovering around the WWE midcard, such as Rey Mysterio, The Miz, The Big Show and Christian. No doubt we'll see Chris Jericho return soon and be reheated as a championship contender, but he's old news too.

Cesaro and Barrett might yet make it, but does WWE have the patience to build them up over a sustained period of time? I'd like to see them get behind these guys, but there's a multitude of reasons - some beyond the wrestlers' control, others not - why barely anyone can break away from the pack.

The Cappuccino Kid wrote:

Cesaro and Barrett might yet make it, but does WWE have the patience to build them up over a sustained period of time?

I think so. WWE has a history ever since Lesnar left them in the lurch of either stop/starting pushes (Ziggler, Swagger) or putting a rocket up someone's arse until they crash and burn (Ryback, Sheamus) and neither work. In the past year we've seen steady, sustained pushes for quality talents in the Shield, the Wyatts and Daniel Bryan. I reckon we'll see that becoming the trend.

I'd like to think so too, but WWE's past form with those two doesn't leave me feeling confident that they will. After headlining three or four consecutive PPVs in 2010 then being decisively crushed by John Cena, Barrett floundered in midcard limbo, sometimes threatening to advance to a more meaningful position, but more often losing to Randy Orton, Sheamus, The Miz and others in throwaway TV matches. On a similar accord, Cesaro started well with the US title, then went on a losing streak, dropped the belt to Kofi Kingston (?) and spent most of the last year in a tag team that rarely won.

Both very talented, but WWE has to give me more reason to believe in them than they have before.

Just think were WWE might be if it had carried through with it's pushes. Drew McIntyre would probably be a five-time champion by now.

Labelling someone as "The Chosen One" is surely only setting them up for failure though, right?

Mind you, it worked for Brock "The Next Big Thing" Lesnar.

I don't know if this has been posted here yet, but this is great - JBL on what it takes to be a successful heel: http://www.layfieldreport.com/how-to-be-a-bad-guy-in-pro-wrestling.blog

So ICW have a Glasgow event coming up on the 27th July could be a good time for a GNamer meet up.

http://m.ticketmaster.co.uk/event/36004C98E3F2813D?

I'd hopefully be able to make that, aye.   

Sound!

Oh Tickets seem to sell fast so I wouldn't wait too long to buy.

I could maybe do that. I'd certainly buy a ticket, but can't guarantee for 100% that I'd actually be able to go. More likely than not, I'd hope.

The Cappuccino Kid wrote:

Everybody just trades wins and loses in WWE, and it means bugger all to me.

This is 50/50 booking, and it is a waste of time.


Here's a thought on WWE pushing people and making them stars: who have they made in to stars since John Cena and Batista in 2005 (where they put world titles on them both, and made them the focal point of Raw and Smackdown respectively)? CM Punk doesn't count, he and the crowds got him over, and WWE almost fucked his popularity up with dodgy booking. Take Daniel Bryan out of your thinking too, he got over through hard work and fan support too, he's only in the position he is now because fans forced him in to this position. So, who have WWE made in to massive stars in the last near decade?

WWE losing Edge really hurt them - he was a solidly built up star and would have easily squeezed into any storyline. Sure, he'd be close to retiring, but he could be putting people over.

You're right though - there's a booking problem in WWE. I still maintain it's changing for the better now though.

Short Sleeve Sampson, who played Jerry The King Smaller at the Extreme Rules pre-show (that WeeLC match!) posted this picture on Facebook during the show, WWE were not best happy with him.

"So, I'm going to nearly win the match twenty times and make Harper and Rowan look really dumb, sound good?"

Meanwhile, JBL posts some Cranky Vince tweets.

I've seen that picture about 5 times before now and only just noticed that Cena and the Wyatt's were having a chinwag, except Harper whose looking a little lonely.

Been to my first WWE Live Event in Cardiff which was great, thought it was good as it was 3 hours of nearly all wrestling. So might be better then RAW or SD in some ways due to that.

I've got pictures about 80+ from it, so to many to put here but will put as an album on Facebook which I link in.

But it went down like this
Justin Roberts comes out and says no Bryan due to injury, Orton comes out and Challenges Roman to a match which last about 5 secs due to interference from Rybackaxel then Ambrose & Seth comes down. There's a all out brawl in till Brad Maddox comes out to make a tag match of Rybackaxel v Ambrose & Seth to start right away and that Orton v Roman will happen as the main event as a street fight. Ambrose & Seth Win,

then we had Sin Cara v Rusev (W) with Lana,

6 tag divas match which was Rosa, Snuka and Layla whom WWE must of forgot was British as she was just announced as Layla V Cameron,
Naomi and the Divas Champ Paige (W) who got a huge pop when she was a announced from Norwich, England in the UK and she even tried to dance at the end

NXT Title match Bo Dallas whom was excellent on the mic v the Champ Adrian Neville (W) whom also got a decent pop, I did have to explain who these guys were to the rest of the group

Tables Match Kane with another big pop v Big Show (W) whom also got a decent pop

Fandango with Layla v Mark Henry in a Dance Off which was voted by the audience via twitter instead of a match, Fandango does his thing then Henry goes up the lights goes off then you see this glove, Henry does thriller and even did the splits then Fandango attacked him for Henry to do a WSS on him then some more dancing and brought some kids in to dance with him

Fatal Four-way for the intercontinental championship, Swagger out first with Zeb who does a little bit like it's great to be in England & tries to sing tom jones v RVD v Big E v with the biggest pop of the night especially when he said on the mic that he had some bad news for the yanks in the ring and he's pleased to be back home in the UK the Champ Wade Barret (W)

Street Fight Orton v Roman (W), great match of course had interference from both rybackaxel & the rest of the shield

And that was that 7 match's and a dance off.

Anyone watching NXT Takeover tonight? If it's anything like the last live special, it should be cracking.

Where do you normally watch those NXT ppvs?

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In other news I'll be seeing a PBW (premier British wrestling) event in my local area in about a weeks time, the best thing about it? Grado is on the card.

ITS YERSEL!

Make sure to sing his entrance as loud as you can.

And either Reddit's Squared Circle or 420chan's /wooo/ put up streams for most live events, so I just catch it there.

Ahh I might remember that for the future but Takeover will be getting shown before Payback this Sunday.

Be excited - despite not feeling as high profile as Arrival, it manages to really shine. Zayn/Breeze is quality and Charlotte/Natalya is my women's MOTY so far.

I'm really looking forward to it as I've not watched NXT for a good bit because of its awkward time slot on sky & all the other TV I usually watch.