Super Smash Bros. for Wii U

ZeroJones wrote:

For not being Batman?

That's more of a positive there.  

Athrun888 wrote:

Why does Robin keep being picked on!?  

Maybe because it's barely a character & going by Balla's history of one generation statement he/she shouldn't count, it'd be like putting in the boy or girl you pick in a Pokemon game (yes, I'm aware Pokemon trainer was a thing in brawl & was also dumb) there's just many better characters Robin could be replaced with.

The_Jaster wrote:

Maybe because it's barely a character & going by Balla's history of one generation statement...

That applies to third-party characters only.

The_Jaster wrote:

Maybe because it's barely a character  

As opposed to Shovel Knight who is the most intricately woven video game character of all time.  



On that note, if being a character with an actual personality is a requisite Robin isn't the only character who would need to go.  Pretty much the entire roster falls in to that one one way or the other.  And despite that remark, Robin despite being an "avatar" character is also actually a proper fleshed out character in his own right, complete with proper dialogue in fact, which ironically puts him above most of the roster on that point.  

Besides, putting aside any bias one way or the other it should be noted Fire Emblem is one of Nintendo's oldest and most enduring IPs, having been around since the NES era.  It may not be your cup of tea, much like Animal Crossing isn't mine, but it has absolutely earned the right to have several members of its long history represented in a game that is all about representing the entirety of Nintendo's history and franchises.  

As for why Robin should be one of them, well, he's one of three main characters in the latest (at the time of release) and highest selling game in the series, with his only other competition from said game being two blue haired swordsmen (one of whom undeservedly managed to get on the roster anyway , but as a clone rather than a unique properly developed character).   He checks all the important boxes.


And like I said, the game is about representing Nintendo's history, not gamings.  If non-Nintendo ip's want in they're going to need to go through quality checks that Nintendo-owned characters don't.  Shovel Knight passes none of them.  He's a brand new ip, he has no exclusivity with Nintendo, and he's not exactly genre definigingly iconic like characters like Ryu are.  No amount of poo-pooing some of the nicher parts of the roster is going to change this, although it is likely to draw me in to the debate.

Athrun and I don't agree about much, but he's nailed how I feel about the Smash character roster (apart from that I'm actually not too keen on Robbo myself, but I can see why s/he's there). Especially the last paragraph, and especially this sentence:

Athrun888 wrote:

And like I said, the game is about representing Nintendo's history, not gaming's.

I know I've made it well known on here that I wasn't a fan of Awakening (well, it's story at least) but I've never said Robin didn't deserve to be in there just that it's a terrible character and despite FE:A being the highest selling game in the series I bet a lot of folk still went "who?" after the reveal.

As I've said before about dlc in smash bros the normal rules don't apply so they can be much more open with their selections (within reason obviously, nothing from DBZ, Sony/MS etc.) & Nintendo must feel this way or they wouldn't have made the character ballot so open & since dlc like Ryu or Shovel Knight are likely one-off's why be so annoyed about it? I'm honestly trying to understand why you's see it as a something bad as the crossover appeal for certain third party characters alone is worth it in my opinion.

I'm well game for Shovel Knight in Smash. He's an interesting looking character who will easily translate to Smash, and I think including an indie character would be a really clever move by Ninty.

Spoilered for wall of text, response to criticism about the character within::

Besides, this is all speculation based off a rumoured future Amiibo - it might not even happen.

I'd love if it did though.

The_Jaster wrote:

As I've said before about dlc in smash bros the normal rules don't apply so they can be much more open with their selections (within reason obviously, nothing from DBZ, Sony/MS etc.) & Nintendo must feel this way or they wouldn't have made the character ballot so open & since dlc like Ryu or Shovel Knight are likely one-off's why be so annoyed about it? I'm honestly trying to understand why you's see it as a something bad as the crossover appeal for certain third party characters alone is worth it in my opinion.

Yes, I get the feeling that there's some misunderstanding going on. If I say that I feel that the DLC characters shouldn't be subject to any different rules, and am worried that they won't be one-offs (e.g. Ryu for SSB5 now much more likely), does that make more sense (when combined with Athrun's post above)?  

And I'm guessing you don't think that the strong link to Ninty is as big a deal (with, as you say, the crossover appeal outweighing it), is that right?  Same presumably applies to Jay.


While I don't want SK to rear his helmet, I do think that if he does appear, he'll be more fun than Ryu was.  I imagine that his physics will be loose and bouncy despite the armour.  I feel that his pogo-ing should be made a big part of his game, rather than just another V+A attack, but I'm not sure how they'd spin that.

Balladeer wrote:

 I feel that his pogo-ing should be made a big part of his game, rather than just another V+A attack, but I'm not sure how they'd spin that.

I reckon something similar to Link's d-air but without the acceleration and some upwards momentum after hitting them allowing you to string some attacks together. Imagine bopping them when they're off-stage with the pogo move and easily making it back?

All but confirmed - here's the amiibo.

That does look convincing - more so than the last "reveal" at least, as that was just a render made by the same guy who put together the Rayman "leak". Course, there's no explicit tie to Smash - in fact, the text talking about how it'll be used in future Yacht Club games suggests otherwise. But it'll be interesting to see where it goes. A Shovel Knight amiibo is really cool though, and great news for indie devs.

If he does make it in, the Smash remixes will be amazing.

ZeroJones wrote:

In other news, there's an SONM Smash tournament in the works - details can be found in the Affiliates thread, here!

Yes, please come check it out. It'll be a blast~

Balladeer wrote:

All but confirmed - here's the amiibo.

SMASH logo is missing hmm

But I agree with Athrun on the SK situation.

@Jay - That's a great break down of how Sakurai selects characters for smash bros also not only is the upcoming dlc of Shovel Knight a big deal the game is also getting a retail release in October.

balla wrote:

And I'm guessing you don't think that the strong link to Ninty is as big a deal (with, as you say, the crossover appeal outweighing it), is that right?  Same presumably applies to Jay.

I wouldn't say the crossover appeal outweighs it, both are important to have but I guess it'd be character dependant so if one selected didn't have strong or any link to Nintendo then the crossover appeal would be the big factor.

The fact that smash celebrates Nintendo in the way it does is brilliant but how they are willing to also celebrate other characters from games they didn't make is equally brilliant to me.

I can understand that, even though I disagree with your last clause. Anyway, better resign myself to him. I'm looking forward to constantly pogo-ing Pac-Man into a pit, if nothing else. (And Jay's right that some updated SK tunes would be brilliant.)

Since that's the SK amiibo officially announced I'm not sure if he will end up in smash bros, why not announce that at the same time? Though their site does say this about it.

Yacht club games wrote:

We plan to continue support of the Shovel Knight amiibo in future Yacht Club Games and Nintendo products! Stay tuned to amiibo.com for compatibility details in new games.

I'm just going to point out Jay that those requirements are specifically in relation to the character poll.  It's fairly clear that as far as the third party characters that are selected by Sakurai personally are concerned that the checklist being used for Smash 4 is fairly strict.  As evidenced by the fact that the only third party characters on the roster all have absolutely enormous prestige and history behind them, and are all on a similar level of fame as Mario himself being some of the most iconic figures in the mediums thirty-plus year history.  

If Shovel Knight makes it in (and despite the general mood around the net being otherwise I very much believe it's a big if), it's because of the people rather than passing the usual criteria.  Under normal circumstances I feel fairly confident in saying Shovel Knight would very likely not be included in Smash, for the reasons I stated previously.  It may have been my checklist, but it's fairly clear through the actions that have been taken it's close enough to whatever checklist is typically used.


Having said all that, I actually don't particularly mind one way or the other whether he makes it in, as far as third party inclusions go he's not exactly offensive or anything.  I was just defending my boy, that has been achieved so I'm actually okay with whatever happens.

Robin is still shit.

Athrun888 wrote:

I'm just going to point out Jay that those requirements are specifically in relation to the character poll.  It's fairly clear that as far as the third party characters that are selected by Sakurai personally are concerned that the checklist being used for Smash 4 is fairly strict.  As evidenced by the fact that the only third party characters on the roster all have absolutely enormous prestige and history behind them, and are all on a similar level of fame as Mario himself being some of the most iconic figures in the mediums thirty-plus year history.

I don't think Sakurai takes prestige into account when selecting characters - at least it doesn't seem that way based on his criteria (which I pulled from an interview he did after Smash 4's launch). For what it's worth, I don't think Shovel Knight will make it in either, but I'd love to see him there. He was my vote in the Smash Ballot.

Is it not that Shovel Knight came top in the poll of Smash Bros. chars then?

As for the (far too serious) debate about who gets to go in Smash Bros. - yes it is primarily about the insidery of Nintendo's history, but even that, although greater than any other videogame company, is a well that can run dry; and why not have some Special Guest Stars? Shovel Knight may only be a current-gen arrival, but his game's ethos is based on Nintendo history.

Super Mario Maker stage! Randomised layouts, hand getting involved, and... a cat's paw?

That's a pretty fantastic idea for a stage, I'm not normally one for stages with hazards but I might just have to pick that up. Stuff like this is why Smash having dlc is amazing.

That really is a superb idea for a stage & the cat's paw is an on TV screen hand you can choose in SMM.