Super Smash Bros. U/3D

The_Jaster wrote:

...when was the last time Yoshi had a good game?

That's fair enough, although I'd give Yoshi more leeway because he's a first-party character.

The_Jaster wrote:

Also I've not played a main series Pokemon game ever so should I say they shouldn't be part of the roster? No.

That's nonsense.  Nobody has used it as an argument, and it would be a shoddy one if they had.

Anyway, I really do have to drop out of this - it's not going anywhere fast at all, and I'm still not going to like Pac-Man when he comes around.  I still don't like Sonic, despite his much stronger connection to Nintendo (but that's more because of who he is).  Bottom line is that I think that Jay's three points, as quoted by me on the previous page, are good guidelines for admitting third-party characters (although I'd rather not see them at all); that Pac-Man does not have the strong ties to Nintendo that I feel a third-party character ought to have; that it's going to happen anyway, and always was, because of Namco's involvement; and that I am going to continue to moan about it, because frankly, I enjoy a good moan now and then! 

But it's NOT modern Pac-Man it's 80's Pac-Man, so doesn't matter if his current games are good or not just look at sonic or even mega man as well his quality games are from the NES.

Like me and Drunka said Shigsy is a big fan of Pac-Man and wanted him in before now.

Also agree with Cappa, Ice Climbers have had what one game on the NES where's Mega Man has about 48 games across loads of nintendo systems, I don't see how he's hard to justify Athrun

balla wrote:

That's nonsense.  Nobody has used it as an argument, and it would be a shoddy one if they had.

That's sort of (though not as extreme as my example) what you have said though as you don't like him being in the game because he's third party & he hasn't had any decent games recently.

balla wrote:

Bottom line is that I think that Jay's three points, as quoted by me on the previous page, are good guidelines for admitting third-party characters (although I'd rather not see them at all); that Pac-Man does not have the link to Nintendo that I feel a third-party character ought to have

They are good guidelines but I'd say having a link to Nintendo becomes obsolete when you are dealing with such an iconic character, also I'm pretty confident we won't be seeing any more third party characters.

..........but aye let's draw a line under it & cut it into dots for pac-man to eat.   

With those guidelines all I can think is you add another Sonic character like Tails or Dr Eggman or one of these two Goemon, Bomberman. There's few others like Billy Hatcher, the girl from PN03, The Dinosaur Hunter in Turok but none of them stand out or only had 1 or two games.

I'd also say "only one character from any third-party franchise" (unless there are two really iconic inseparable ones): that aside, I think your first sentence of suggestions would fit better than Paccers. I've always mentioned the Holy Trinity of Layton (the Father), Wright (the Son), and Amaterasu (the Holy Ghost) as third-party-ers I'd like not be too pained to see.

But Amaterasu has hardly anything to do with Nintendo a PS2 port to Wii and a DS game compared to Pac-Man who's been in 32 games that have been on a Nintendo system with some exclusives like Pac-Man Vs.

Only reason I thought of those two from Sonic Universe as there iconic to his universe and this being his second smash that he might of got a buddy or enemy but they could be assist trophies like Shadow is.

I'll admit that Amaterasu is the odd one out there, which is why I made her the underdog (ahem) of the trio. I could give reasons, such as her latest game coming out on DS (not including remakes), and every game she's been in (all two) coming out on a Nintendo console; but if I'm honest with myself, I think it's my rationality breaking down, and me thinking that she'd be great to play as and utterly adorable too.  

masofdas wrote:

Also agree with Cappa, Ice Climbers have had what one game on the NES where's Mega Man has about 48 games across loads of nintendo systems, I don't see how he's hard to justify Athrun  

It's because the series is supposed to be about Nintendo history.  Not gaming as a whole, Nintendo's.  A little confession about me, I don't particulalrly care about Mario, the main series with Galaxy and 64 and the like I like the games, same for some of the spin offs like Kart which are just plain unadulterated fun to play, but the characters and world do nothing for me.  But I'm not only fine with the franchise inclusion but also the overwhelming amount of slots in the roster they take up because of how important Mario is to Nintendo.  It can easily be said that Mario is Nintendo.  

Whereas these third party characters, sure, they've played extremely large roles in the history of the industry, but they aren't as relative to Nintendo.  So when I say I can justify Sonic and Megaman I can justify them because the former was once easily the rival to everything that was Mario and thus Nintendo itself and has in recent times ended up becoming a borderline Nintendo character with how close knit Sega and Nintendo are nowadays, and Megaman's entire origins are with Nintendo so I can sort of overlook his inclusion.  But pac man, sure, he's had a bunch of games on Nintendo, but he's his own thing.  His inclusion is like Snake's, albeit for far less charming, far colder reasons.

And I too am going to drop this now, because like balla I'm never going to be okay with his inclusion. I just hope he isn't as overpowered as Sonic was in brawl so when he turns up randomly selected in matches he's easy to just ignore.

So basiclly the same as Billy Hatcher then Balla, who's had 1 game which was on gamecube.

Yeah Snake was stupid as he's had like 4 games on Nintendo systems with all of them being ports or updated versions but when a character like Paccers has had 32 games on Nintendo systems with 11 exclusives (if you count handhelds as there own thing) that's more games with pac-man in then ice climbers, pit, nesss just to name a few.

I googled looking for pac-man pics & found this

My only issue is it's a slot taken that could be filled by someone much better, or even slightly better, well anybody else at all.

Pac-Man is the best character ever and every slot in Smash Bros should be a Pac-Man character. If there's more slots than characters, then that just means there's too many slots. There, I said it.

andyman949 wrote:

My only issue is it's a slot taken that could be filled by someone much better, or even slightly better, well anybody else at all.

I could easily say the same for certain characters I'm not that keen on.

I think everyone thinks that about certain characters to an extent. I remember Jas' complaints about there being too many Pokémon earlier. Get off your high horse, Yomiel!  

There is to many pokemon characters and why those out of the 700 odd pocket monsters. If Nintendo want pokemon to fight in 3D just make pokken fighter's.

Who's really missing that you want though guys that's first/second party.

Krystal from starfox you could use her staff.

My other two big requests this time around were Palutena and Miis.  Would have also liked Midna, although it pretty obviously wasn't going to happen. Still hoping for one more Pokémon that's not Jigglypuff, but that's looking increasingly unlikely: something weird that they couldn't do in Pokken, maybe. (Stunfisk?  )

Balladeer wrote:

I think everyone thinks that about certain characters to an extent.  I remember Jas' complaints about there being too many Pokémon earlier.  Get off your high horse, Yomiel!  

As I've said before I'm more for characters getting in based on how iconic their status is, so Pikachu & Charizard (even non-pokemon fans know who they are) are fine but Lucario & Greninja? Not so much, when the latter's announcement was made I genuinely didn't know where he was from.

You're giving Pokemon as a franchise too little credit in my opinion, it's Nintendo's largest franchise second only to mario and in terms of popularity it dwarfs every single other franchise besides Mario as well, if I recall rightly anyway.  If we're talking iconic as being the main factor in inclusion then four characters seems spot on to me.  

As for greninja itself, wynaught?  Someone to represent the latest games was inevitable, and out of the 72 new critters he fits the bill most as a fighter, so there isn't anyone else from the latest games any more worthy than greninja although that might be in part because gen six doesn't really have a proper mascot like some previous gens.  Lucario I'd agree with completely however, he was just a clone of mewtwo to begin with and as gen 4's day is done I'd have thought bringing mewtwo back would have been the smarter move.

The_Jaster wrote:

As I've said before I'm more for characters getting in based on how iconic their status is...

Oh aye? Then where were you when I was suggesting the 3DS as a good fighter, eh? How iconic do you want!? Bloody hypocrite...  

Athrun888 wrote:

You're giving Pokemon as a franchise too little credit in my opinion, it's Nintendo's largest franchise second only to mario and in terms of popularity it dwarfs every single other franchise besides Mario as well, if I recall rightly anyway.  If we're talking iconic as being the main factor in inclusion then four characters seems spot on to me.  

As for greninja itself, wynaught?  Someone to represent the latest games was inevitable, and out of the 72 new critters he fits the bill most as a fighter, so there isn't anyone else from the latest games any more worthy than greninja although that might be in part because gen six doesn't really have a proper mascot like some previous gens.  Lucario I'd agree with completely however, he was just a clone of mewtwo to begin with and as gen 4's day is done I'd have thought bringing mewtwo back would have been the smarter move.

I'm well aware of how massive Pokemon is for Nintendo & knew my opinion would be an unpopular one on here (given how most of you are big fans of it) but I'd rather tell it how I see it than keep it to myself, its not like I hate it either I just know it isn't for me.

As for Greninja I know his style will fit smash from the videos/footage I've seen but I just don't think he's (same with Lucario) as revered as others on the roster.

Balladeer wrote:

The_Jaster wrote:

As I've said before I'm more for characters getting in based on how iconic their status is...

Oh aye?  Then where were you when I was suggesting the 3DS as a good fighter, eh?  How iconic do you want!?  Bloody hypocrite...  

Sorry I can't follow every little thing in the thread O powerful & wise admin....  

About this whole Pokemon issue. I have to say that the choices of Charizard and Greninja are somewhat weird. They are no more or less iconic than other starters in the series. (Venusaur, Delphox, etc) Being a fan of both series it kind of rubs me the wrong way that these have been chosen and other starters, all of which could easily be incorporated into the game, have been neglected.

It's just like on Brawl how you can get Moltres from a pokeball but not Articuno or Zapdos, its just wrong.

The pokemon trainer on Brawl avoided this, as much as I dislike transformation characters at least it included the complete set of Kanto starters.

The iconic thing about pokemon (apart from Pikachu) is making a choice between three at the start of the game, I think this has been lost in transition to the smash series.

ShopTo has the Game and GameCube controller for £52.85 which seems a great price but seems to be missing something yep the adapter to actually use the controller.

Its probably just place holder until they receive more info on the real bundle as they also have the release date down as 21st November.

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I'm quite tempted to pick this Yoshi controller up which is a steal at just under 20 quid. http://www.shopto.net/video-games/wiiu/WIIAC82-officially-licensed-wired-gamecube-controller-yoshi

Is that one of the pdp made ones, it does look cool.

Aye I believe it is, I still plan to get the cube adapter bundle with the game though.