Wrestling Discussion Thread II

Reminds me of when Lesnar was delivering his classic Germans and seemed to forget Seth Rollins is a little lighter than John Cena, ended up firing him across the ring!

Jinder being champ is only going to turn me away from Smackdown. He's shite - Rusev does the anti-American shtick much better, for one, and Jinder being the worst member of 3MB, including its incarnation with Hornswoggle, means his matches are going to continue to be pretty pish too.

I enjoyed the tag match and Styles/Owens though, so the show was still halfway decent overall.

But it'll probably cause 1.3bn people to tune in, so . . . #BestForBusiness

Drunkalilly wrote:

Reminds me of when Lesnar was delivering his classic Germans and seemed to forget Seth Rollins is a little lighter than John Cena, ended up firing him across the ring!

Aye, also a bit of inexperience from the Singh's who seemed to not know what move Orton was going to do as both of them rotated after he let go.

JayMoyles wrote:

Jinder being champ is only going to turn me away from Smackdown. He's shite - Rusev does the anti-American shtick much better, for one, and Jinder being the worst member of 3MB, including its incarnation with Hornswoggle, means his matches are going to continue to be pretty pish too.

I enjoyed the tag match and Styles/Owens though, so the show was still halfway decent overall.

Yeah yer not wrong but I'm still intrigued to see if he can handle it or who they choose for his next opponent.

Drunkalilly wrote:

But it'll probably cause 1.3bn people to tune in, so . . . #BestForBusiness

You joke, but the Indian commentators were really fucking chuffed. INDIA NUMBER ONE.

On the flipside, Big Dave Meltzer was talking about how ticket sales were doing alright for Backlash until they announced the main event of Jinder vs Orton, and then they totally stalled.

I want those commentator for all Jinder's matches now.

I've always heard all of this and all of that about Chicago crowds, but they really did add to the PPV the other day. Them being so into the Taggers really helped elevate it, and what a match it was. Holy hell, I actually watched it again when I got up this morning, and then got big sadness because they've no Breezango merch on the WWE Shop. But that match gave me so much energy that I ended up watching the whole PPV, even though I really thought Backlash was going to be a total stinker. It wasn't though, it was good.

A lot of the Jinder reaction seems to have been quite positive, if bemused. It's all happened a bit too fast for me but they did make him look alright back at Mania and that was before he moved to SD. I do find him a bit dull between the ropes but the superstar shakeup really fucked smackdown over for heels. You've got Corbin, Owens, Jinder Mahal, Eric Rowan and Ziggler. Am I missing anyone (Rusev's injured right?)? When you assume that Corbin is going to have Summerslam plans and they want to protect him from main eventing just yet, while Owens and Ziggler were in programs of their own, they sort had to make some other heel on the roster look legit. Sure there's the whole India thing with him but he looks intimidating to someone like me who missed 3MB and while his match was nothing special it did tell a decent story and had plenty of drama.

I'd probably say it was the second best singles match of the night, behind Owens - Styles. The Nakamura match underwhelmed, both competitors are capable of so much more and it just didn't feel like it had the same animosity as the Owens match to me. It wasn't bad, I just think it was stuck somewhere between third and fourth gear.

Some will say that this really underscores SmackDown as the B-tier brand. I'm happy to concede that as being true, but I also don't care. I was entertained, which is more than I can say for Raw, and even some of its PPVs.

WWE has finally done it after 2+ years of subbing, I've cancelled my sub that's how bad battleground was. I think gJones has said in the past he's had offers when he left before and may rejoin if I can get a good deal but I'm off to watch Kenny Omega vs. Toru Yano.

Aye, I was really unimpressed by Battleground. How can they end up having an AJ Styles/Kevin Owens match ending with the equivalent of a wet fart? I think I'll be doing the same to be honest Mas - I fall out with WWE until the Royal Rumble anyway, so I might cancel after Summerslam or perhaps sooner if the card looks shite.

It's not helped matters that I recently subscribed to NJPW World and have been catching up with the G1 which has been stacked with amazing matches. Each show having English commentary has helped me get into NJPW in a way I've never done before.

I don't think tomorrows is in English and how you watching it as I want to watch on my TV.

I'm just watching it through my laptop. I think it works with Chromecast compatible devices though.

Ach, no worries if it's not in English - I've been watching NJPW off and on since 2013 and the Japanese announcing team still get you hyped up even if I've no clue what they're saying beyond "RAINMAKEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH".

Poor as Battleground was I'll be sticking with my WWE network sub because I do still watch the other content on there like table for 3, ride along & most of the interview/documentary shows. If it comes to the worst I may just go NXT only.

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On another note anyone here seen any of those The Elite Q&A's? Despite having only seen matches of Young Bucks & Adam Cole & not Kenny Omega they are a really good watch full of fun wee stories.

That was the reason why I was keeping the Network was for NXT like I said elsewhere about these subscription services as normally, I watch what I want and cancel. Which I will be doing with NOW TV after GoT and Netflix after Defenders and Death Note (Star Trek starts in September though but weekly, that I'll wait for all the season to be out).

But even NXT hasn't been the great recently and last night I watched Ibushi v Ishii from Day 5 of the G1 Climax 27 and it pisses over anything on WWE in months.

As of last night I know of around 5 people who cancelled the Network and I think 3 of us have or plan to sub to NJPW World.

I unsubbed a bit before Battleground. Poor timing with Summerslam just around the corner, but equally I'm not too fussed. Smackdown's tag division has been good fun recently, but everything else about the show has been piss. Battleground exemplified that, hosting one good match and a ton of, should've been good but no, matches.

I just don't understand why:
Nakamura's PPV has been booked like a chump - outside of MIBT, why do they keep having him work slow - soft style - matches?

Battleground spoiler:

Or the obsession with prolonged feuds - because we keep getting crap finishes such as the KO-AJ match, which should have been a match of the year contender.
And the DQ finishes, christ. They do have their place in a PPV, but they should be rare. They should roil up the crowd for the right reasons. When was the last PPV without one?

Also, I gave him a chance, but Jinder's done. Get the title off him. The Singh bros are the best thing about his character, without whom he'd be dull as dishwater. He's worked a few decent matches with Randy, pre-dedicated around the same Singh intervention both times, before having a shitter in the Punjabi Prison. That's not entirely his fault, it's a terrible stipulation, but this really was dreadful. There was an opportunity for him to look a bit respectable but nope we couldn't possibly have him look a little bit competent. I've got to question whether his run is even appealing to that hallowed Indian market. Do they really want a one-dimensional heel champ, whose not native and has never been booked as credible threat nor wrestled an exciting match, and whose promos are straight from the 80s? Or are they more likely to think, this is all rather forced? It's gone from, fairy tale surprise to short-lived cartoon very quickly. At least the Great Kahli was treated like a monster, until they gave up on him. And I've heard he actually was very popular in India, probably because he's b-movie hilarious but also kayfabe legit.

Wrestling is a much better watch with company, alone I just start seeing all the flaws that were always there with company but weren't quite so in your face.

I don't blame anyone for cancelling after that tbh just thought I'd share why I wasn't quite at that point yet even though SD live has been the only thing I've liked from WWE since the brand split........until they put the title on Jinder that is, I honestly thought with them hyping up how dangerous the Punjabi prison match is that they'd be booking Corbin to cash in after a brutal finish.

The DQ in the match that Muss brings up even suggests that too then you have an even better reason to continue that feud.

There's definitely still lots of good stuff, and upcoming stuff, on the network. I just only get around to the PPVs and with the recent form being rough, I want a few more PPVs in hand before stepping back in.

Just had a look at the results there. The Great Khali returning? The USA Vs. Bulgaria? Shinsuke Nakamura getting booted in the tadger? Who the fuck asked for this pish?!? Battleground looked poor on paper and seems to have been even worse on the night.

It's mind-boggling that THREE of the matches on that card revolved around anti-American gimmicks. That shite was outdated back in the 90s, let alone today.

I never understood why there's a Bulgaria vs. USA rivalry. They may as well made Rusev Russian - it's not too late, Kofi Kingston is now American.

We've had Rusev as a Russian which was fine with highlight being the match with Cena at Mania, where he came down in a tank.

This is why wrestling - and particularly WWE - pisses me off. So he's Bulgarian, but they originally had him as Russian because that's more "bad-guy-ey"? I know they've got to come up with characters somehow, but everything's designed to be the most low-brow dumb-arse-pleasing shit.

Anyway, sorry, this isn't "for me" - please send hate mail my way and carry on.

Nah, I think most of us would agree with you on that one, Jimbob.

The only way things usually improve is if the wrestler themselves have a decent amount of creative control over their character (like a Bray Wyatt) or the ones who essentially play themselves but turned up to 11 like New day & Bayley.

It's the lack of continuity which is the biggest problem. I'm fine with there being an America vs Russia dumbass storyline as long as they go all in on it, and as long as its the only storyline of its kind. Rusev's always had a Bulgaria tattoo. It was dumb to have him play a Russian, but that's fine as long as you roll with it properly. I'm happy to buy into nonsense, just give me a little reason to care about it. When they rehash the same old feud a year later, changing the nationality as if we'd forget, then no. Especially when we have India vs USA too on the same bloody show.

I listened to an interview with former WWE wrestler, Simon Gotch, and his main problem with working at the WWE (as a low card guy) was that the attitude of writers was "oh, nobody will remember that." He referred to a number of incidents, most recently his being eliminated first from every battle royale he was in. But the biggest one was back when he was in NXT, his tag team, the Vaudevillains, were told to play their character based off the crowd reaction. They were an old-timey tag team and, being different, got a good reaction so they played good guys. The joke was that their concept of villainy was so benign they came off like a Hanna Barbara bad guy rather than some ruthless assholes, but that they believed themselves truly nasty people.

Someone in creative (or higher up the food chain) wasn't in on that and because they had "villain" in their tag team name decided they had to be heel. And so, one night, without ever having been told to play the villain role properly, he and his partner got a bollocking off for not playing the villainous role. Thereafter they were proper baddies, and the audience had no forewarning as to why. Worse still, I think it might have been on the night of the bollocking, they had their entrance music changed without being told. So they did their usual shtick but to music that no longer made any sense. Nobody thought it would be a good idea to let them know clearly.

Basically the WWE is such a bloated company that the wrestlers are often not allowed to do anything with their characters, or the creative staff just write them into a corner because "nobody will remember." But of course, the fans do care, they do get invested. They want more continuity, not less. But because of the bureaucratic structure that is the WWE so much of the passion gets shmushed.

Things like the Cruiserweight Classic or the UK Tournament worked because everyone there, from production to the wrestlers, bought into the concept of what type of wrestling was to be showcased and how to present the wrestlers. They're the best things the WWE have done in a long time. Once it came to integrating the cruiserweights into the main show though, it all got fucked. Shite storylines, shite wrestling - because they don't want the cruiserweight style to overshadow the stars - so its just shite.

Then there's the whole, this wrestler, Bray Wyatt, is the eater of worlds. But he can't win a match so he's more like the eater of words. One PPV match is immediately thereafter given the opposite result the following television show so that we can justify the same wrestlers fighting for another month of T.V. and it's just a recipe for stagnation. It's not always like that, I love the stuff they do with BRAUN!!! But when WWE is off, it's really off.

The only thing I've watched in a good couple of months now in WWE was that Cena/Nakamura match. Ace stuff, but I've no desire to check anything else out.

I know Mas has been watching, but has anybody else been keeping up with NJPW's G1 Climax? It's ramping up to the final few shows now - well worth checking out if you're in a bit of a lull with WWE.

I've just commenced G1